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                  UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

    

             FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

    

         BEFORE THE HONORABLE ARTHUR S. WEISSBRODT, JUDGE

    

    

     In Re:                             ) Case No. 98-51326-ASW

                                        ) Chapter 13

                                        )

     HOWARD KEITH HENSON,               )

                                        ) TRIAL

                                        ) Volume I

                         Debtor.        ) Pages 1 to 179

                                        )

                                        )

                                        ) Friday, September 27, 2002

                                        ) San Jose, California

    

     Appearances:

    

     For the Debtor:          Law Offices of Stanley A. Zlotoff

                              By:  Stanley A. Zlotoff, Attorney at Law

                              300 South First Street, Suite 215

                              San Jose, California  95113

    

     For Creditor Religious   Moxon & Kobrin

     Technology Center:       By:  Helena K. Kobrin, Attorney at Law

                              3055 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 900

                              Los Angeles, California  90010

    

                              McPharlin, Sprinkles & Thomas

                              By:  Elaine M. Seid, Attorney at Law

                              10 Almaden Boulevard, Suite 1460

                              San Jose, California  95113

    

                              Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker LLP

                              By:  Samuel D. Rosen, Attorney at Law

                              75 East 55th Street

                              New York, New York  10022-4597

    

     Electronic Court         United States Bankruptcy Court

     Recorder:                Clerk of the Court 

                              Liz Armendariz

                              280 South First Street, Room 3035

                              San Jose, California  95113

                              (408) 535-5003

    

     Certified Electronic     Palmer Reporting Services

     Transcriber:             P. O. Box 30727

                              Stockton, California  95213-0727

    

            Proceedings recorded by digital recording;

          transcript produced by federally-approved transcription

service.                             I N D E X

    

    

    

     Creditor's Motions:                                  page   3

    

          Opening Statement on behalf of the Creditor:    page  32

    

          Creditor's List of Exhibits:                    page  58

    

          Debtor's Response to Creditor's Exhibits:       page  92

    

          Opening Statement on behalf of the Debtor:      page 126

    

    

    

    

     Witnesses:

                              Direct   Cross   Redirect   Recross

         

     Victoria Arel Lucas

      By Mr. Zlotoff:          153

    

    

    

    

     Exhibits:                               Received in Evidence

    

     None.

    

    

    

    

    

    

                                                                     3

 

 1        Friday, September 27, 2002                 9:09 o'clock a.m.

 

 2                    P R O C E E D I N G S

 

 3             THE COURT:  Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.  Please

 

 4   be seated.

 

 5             Ms. Seid, I understand that there's some concern, that

 

 6   you want to have use of some court equipment?

 

 7             You need to be at a microphone, please.

 

 8             MS. SEID:  That's correct, Your Honor.  We were

 

 9   interested in having a television and a VCR made available this

 

10   morning.

 

11             THE COURT:  First of all, those have to be ordered in

 

12   advance and set up.  Nobody shows up the day of trial and asks

 

13   for them.  And, secondly, is that on your exhibit list?

 

14             MR. ROSEN:  The video -

 

15             THE COURT:  You need the microphone, please.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  The videotape that we -

 

17             THE COURT:  Oh, I'm sorry.  Let me call the case and

 

18   get your appearances.  I got into the technical problem first.

 

19             Keith Henson.

 

20             May I have appearances?

 

21             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Stan Zlotoff for debtor.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  For creditor Religious Technology Center

 

23   Samuel D. Rosen, Paul, Hastings, Janofsky and Walker.

 

24             MS. KOBRIN:  Helena Kobrin, Moxon and Kobrin, also for

 

25   the debtor.

 

                                                           4

 

 1             THE COURT:  What exactly is this - Ms. - Ms. Seid,

 

 2   would you come forward to the microphone, please - what exactly

 

 3   is the exhibit?

 

 4             MS. SEID:  First of all, I'll state my appearance.

 

 5             Elaine Seid of McPharlin, Sprinkles and Thomas

 

 6   appearing on behalf of the creditor.

 

 7             I'm going to ask Mr. Rosen to respond to the Court,

 

 8   Your Honor.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  The exhibit which is marked -

 

10             THE COURT:  You don't have the microphone.  You need

 

11   the microphone every time, or we won't get on the record -

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  You know I'll tell you something.  Many

 

13   years ago Judge Feinberg in the Second Circuit told me, "Mr.

 

14   Rosen, you're one of the few attorneys who appear here who do

 

15   not need the microphone."

 

16             THE COURT:  Yeah.  I was a law -

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  My voice tends to carry.

 

18             THE COURT:  I was a law clerk in that courthouse.  I

 

19   know that court.

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  In the Second Circuit?

 

21             THE COURT:  I was a law clerk on the District Court -

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  Oh.

 

23             THE COURT:  - for Judge Demmick.

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  In answer to your question we have marked

 

25   as an exhibit a video - and it's been in the exhibits since the

 

                                                           5

 

 1   first joint pretrial order, a year and a half ago, - a videotape

 

 2   of excerpts of deposition taken of Mr. Henson in the copyright

 

 3   case.  We want to play the videotape excerpts for this Court.

 

 4   They relate to the issue - the videotape relates to the issue of

 

 5   bad faith.

 

 6             THE COURT:  It's my understanding, and it hasn't been

 

 7   briefed, and I had wanted any issue that might be of concern,

 

 8   that that's a matter of discretion.  There's certainly a

 

 9   transcript available, but I don't know whether you object.  If

 

10   you object, then I'd like to know about it.

 

11             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Well, can coun- -

 

12             THE COURT:  To the video, rather.  I'm not talking

 

13   about the transcript.  I'm just - I'm not talking about the

 

14   transcript yet.  I'm just talking about the video.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  The video is the official record of the

 

16   deposition, not the transcript.  And it was - and for that

 

17   reason at trial before Judge Whyte it was the video that was

 

18   shown to the jury, not the transcript.

 

19             And it's - by the way, it's a highlight reel.  It's

 

20   certain sections of his deposition given over, I think, two or

 

21   three days.  They were - it was approved by Judge Whyte as

 

22   appropriate excerpts to be shown to the jury.  And, as I say,

 

23   because the video was the official record under the Federal

 

24   Rules, I think it's Rule 30, that the video was shown, not the

 

25   transcript read.

 

                                                           6

 

 1             THE COURT:  Was a copy of it provided to Mr. Zlotoff

 

 2   in advance - of the video?

 

 3             MS. KOBRIN:  On August 1st, Your Honor.

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  And it's been listed since

 

 5   September of 2001.

 

 6             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I don't remember getting a videotape.  I

 

 7   reviewed the - your exhibit list last night, and I noticed one

 

 8   videotape that was designated.  And I looked in - in the - to

 

 9   the exhibit, and all I saw was like two pages of mostly, I won't

 

10   say redacted, but certainly not a complete excerpt of what - of

 

11   what the videotape purported to be.

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  I don't have to put in an entire

 

13   videotape.  I can put excerpts.

 

14             THE COURT:  But you have to provide it to him.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.

 

16             THE COURT:  You have to provide him the full

 

17   videotape.

 

18             MS. KOBRIN:  There were three separate -

 

19             THE COURT:  Ms. Kobrin, I need to ask you to use the

 

20   mic.  Even if Mr. Rosen has a big barrel voice, you don't.

 

21             MS. KOBRIN:  I don't, I know.

 

22             There were actually three separate videotapes that

 

23   were included in the - in the exhibits that were given to him on

 

24   August 1st.  There was a sleeve -

 

25             THE COURT:  Two months ago.

 

                                                           7

 

 1             MS. KOBRIN:  - just - just like in your set, Your

 

 2   Honor, or in here - whoops, sorry.  There were sleeves, you

 

 3   know, with the videotapes in them.

 

 4             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Oh.

 

 5             MS. KOBRIN:  In the set that was sent to Mr. Zlotoff.

 

 6             MR. ZLOTOFF:  All right.  I - I may have overlooked

 

 7   it.  It's possible.

 

 8             THE COURT:  And where are they in the Judge's copy?

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Volume IV.

 

10             MS. KOBRIN:  Volume IV, Exhibits 213, 214, and 2- -

 

11   no, I'm sorry - let's see.  2- - 213, 214, 215, I believe.

 

12             THE COURT:  I don't see any sleeve in mine.  Would you

 

13   look in the official?

 

14             MS. KOBRIN:  Oh, we put it in one set, we didn't put

 

15   them in both on the Court copies.

 

16             THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Zlotoff, can you come up and

 

17   look at this because it would - it's fairly pronounced.  Would

 

18   you have gotten this?

 

19             MR. ZLOTOFF:  You know, Your Honor, I - I've probably

 

20   overlooked it.  I'm not - I'm not going to state that I either

 

21   saw it or didn't see it, that I probably overlooked it.

 

22             THE COURT:  Is your office close enough that if we

 

23   break for lunch you can go look?

 

24             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Yes.

 

25             THE COURT:  All right.  So that's what we'll do.

 

                                                           8

 

 1   We'll use it after lunch.

 

 2             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Well, -

 

 3             THE COURT:  And we'll have it set it up.  That will

 

 4   give us a chance to -

 

 5             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Well, Your Honor, could I - maybe I

 

 6   should just address a threshold issue.  It purports to be a 1996

 

 7   deposition.  And I don't understand what possible relevance that

 

 8   would have.

 

 9             THE COURT:  When was this case filed?

 

10             MR. ZLOTOFF:  '98.

 

11             THE COURT:  What possible relevance could a 1996

 

12   deposition have to whether this case was filed in good faith?

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  The standard of good faith is not limited

 

14   to the instant this case is filed, as Your Honor knows.  There

 

15   has been a long pattern of misconduct by Mr. Henson, including

 

16   the misuse of the - of the Bankruptcy Court in the filing of the

 

17   petition in this case as part of his ongoing enterprise to

 

18   attack the Scientology religion.

 

19             This videotape shows his state of mind, his mens rea,

 

20   his intention to just for amusement and stature to attack RTC.

 

21   That carries forward in the - in the good faith-bad faith

 

22   argument and it's going to come forward under 1307 to his

 

23   conduct in the filing of this petition at a time when there was

 

24   only one creditor and there was no claim that had been - that

 

25   had been liquidated against him.  And it's going to continue on

 

                                                           9

 

 1   in terms of his misconduct during this case, the false

 

 2   statements in his schedules and the like.

 

 3             We also have - to the extent there's any question

 

 4   about it, it's a totality-of-circumstances test, which I'm sure

 

 5   Your Honor is aware of, and we have caselaw for that very

 

 6   proposition.

 

 7             We also have caselaw for the proposition that although

 

 8   the filing of a bankruptcy petition for the purpose of derailing

 

 9   a state court litigation -

 

10             THE COURT:  Was there state court litigation that

 

11   was -

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  No, no.  This is a federal court.  I'm

 

13   saying that there isn't - we found no case of - on the

 

14   proposition of - of filing a bankruptcy petition when you're not

 

15   in reality in financial need, for the purpose of derailing a

 

16   state court litigation.  And we've got cases, controlling

 

17   authority from the Ninth Circuit and the Ninth Circuit BAP and

 

18   from the - another District Court in California for the

 

19   proposition that while that alone per se is not cause for

 

20   dismissal under 1307, it is certainly one of the elements that

 

21   the Court needs to look at in terms of determining cause and bad

 

22   faith.

 

23             So to get back to Mr. Zlotoff's contentions or his

 

24   question, the bad faith begins in 1996 with Mr. Henson stating,

 

25   admitting that the whole purpose of this exercise for his

 

                                                           10

 

 1   amusement, the cost of litigation comes out of his, quote,

 

 2   recreation budget.  And his sole purpose - he's never been a

 

 3   Scientologist - his sole purpose is to taunt Scientology.

 

 4             And this is - I will tell you, I've been litigating

 

 5   now in the federal courts 34 years.  I have seen copyright cases

 

 6   where the infringer's motive is to make money, you know, a

 

 7   Napster type case.  I've seen cases where infringements are

 

 8   accidental, where somebody didn't know somebody had written

 

 9   something, or whatever.

 

10             I have never seen, and there is no case I'm aware of

 

11   ever reported in any federal court where the copyright infringer

 

12   says, 'The reason I infringed was to taunt the - the copyright

 

13   owner.'  This is one of a kind.  I think the Judge, Judge Whyte,

 

14   fairly well found that himself and - and the jury certainly

 

15   found it.  And, Your Honor, can -

 

16             THE COURT:  Well, excuse me, Mr. Rosen, can I

 

17   interrupt for a second.  The pl- - Mr. Zlotoff is going to go

 

18   first because he has to prove good faith, so I assume you're

 

19   going to go first on your plan.

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  I'm not sure that's right, if I can

 

21   address it.  If you'll bear with me for 30 seconds, I have a

 

22   couple of other issues to address.

 

23             Number one, I wanted to hand up to the Court on this

 

24   very issue of good faith-bad faith, the decision of Justice

 

25   Whyte entered on September 26th yesterday.  Judge Whyte has put

 

                                                           11

 

 1   this decision under file - under seal.  And - and it cannot be

 

 2   published outside the court obviously.  I am not making it an

 

 3   exhibit unless Your Honor will file it under seal because I

 

 4   don't want to violate Judge Whyte's order.  But I would like to

 

 5   hand it up, and I think what Your Honor - it will show Your

 

 6   Honor what I'm talking about.

 

 7             There's only - it's a determination on a contempt

 

 8   motion.  There is one part of which is absolutely critical and

 

 9   that is a footnote which appears on the bottom of page 5.  Your

 

10   Honor's welcome to see the whole thing.

 

11             THE COURT:  I'll take it.  I'll look at it.

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  And, Mr. Zlotoff, you have a copy, right?

 

13             MR. ZLOTOFF:  This was the one Judge Whyte -

 

14             MR. ROSEN:  Yesterday.  Yesterday.

 

15             MR. ZLOTOFF:  - from yesterday?  Yes, that's fine.  I

 

16   don't have any problem with that.

 

17             THE COURT:  I've read the footnote.  I haven't read

 

18   the whole decision, but I'm not going to take -

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  Your Honor's welcome to.  I think the

 

20   footnote -

 

21             THE COURT:  That's fine.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  I rose also because of the question of who

 

23   goes first.  While it - Your Honor set this as a trial on our

 

24   motion to dismiss for bad faith and indicated in the original

 

25   decision back two years ago that it would then be combined with

 

                                                           12

 

 1   the objections to the plan.

 

 2             As I analyze it, it's one combined trial.  And I'm not

 

 3   sure it makes a great deal of difference except in the following

 

 4   respect.  Under 1307, as I have now been educated by my

 

 5   bankruptcy co-counsel, to - since you know I'm not a bankruptcy

 

 6   attorney - under 1307 if you find bad faith you must do one of

 

 7   two things.  You must either dismiss the petition or convert it

 

 8   to a 7.

 

 9             It strikes me that that is a threshold issue, because

 

10   if you find bad faith and then proceed to do one or the other of

 

11   the two options available, obviously the option that's not

 

12   available is to even hear a motion to confirm a 13 plan, then

 

13   the second part of the trial, which is the debtor's application

 

14   for confirmation of the 13 plan and our objections to it, truly

 

15   becomes moot.  The -

 

16             THE COURT:  How long will your trial go if you go

 

17   first?

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  It's all - it's all exhibits.  We have no

 

19   witnesses.  I'm just going to walk you through the exhibits and

 

20   show you, you know, what the basis of the good faith-bad faith

 

21   argument is under 1307.  In accordance with your order limiting

 

22   the amount of time, I can assure you it will not take me 20

 

23   hours to do that.  I -

 

24             THE COURT:  How long will it take?

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Oh, I expect probably an hour to an hour

 

                                                           13

 

 1   and a half.  Plus part of our presentation is this videotape,

 

 2   which I think is 19 minutes.  That - that is part of our case.

 

 3             We would then rest on our motion for cause - to

 

 4   dismiss for cause, if you will.  I guess the statutory language

 

 5   under 1307 is cause, but the caselaw says bad faith is cause.

 

 6   We would then rest.

 

 7             And if Your Honor wants to make a decision at that

 

 8   point, that's fine, and we wouldn't have to deal with the motion

 

 9   to - to confirm the 13.  If you wanted - Your Honor doesn't want

 

10   to and wants to proceed with the rest of the trial, that's fine,

 

11   too.  But I think that at least Your Honor should have the

 

12   option because the motion-to-confirm hearing is going to take

 

13   considerably longer.

 

14             I understand from Mr. Zlotoff, and he can correct me

 

15   if I'm wrong, but he intends to call a witness, Ms. Lucas, the -

 

16   from my conversations with Mr. Zlotoff, and we've been kind of

 

17   candid with each other, he's telling me what he's going to try

 

18   and prove.  I've told him that he has major evidentiary

 

19   objections to overcome.  This will take some amount of time.  I

 

20   can't tell you how long because it's not my witness.  I can tell

 

21   you the cross-examination will take three or four hours

 

22   probably.  And we've got some battles over exhibits.

 

23             So, you know, I'll do whatever Your Honor wants.  It's

 

24   a combined trial, so I'm not sure it makes all of that

 

25   difference, but if Your Honor of a mind to appreciate that, a

 

                                                           14

 

 1   dismissal - a determination of bad faith or cause under 1307

 

 2   moots the 13.  Whereas the opposite is not true.  The opposite

 

 3   is not true because even if you deny the 13 you still have to

 

 4   deal with the bad faith because under 1307 the - the remedy is

 

 5   either dismissal or conversion.  So denial of the 13 would not

 

 6   moot our motion to dismiss, but the reverse is true.

 

 7             One other thing I wanted to raise to Your Honor on a

 

 8   preliminary basis is this.  You issued a trial order - and this

 

 9   is the last item I have to - to raise.  You issued a trial order

 

10   on July 12th, I believe it was, that set forth in several

 

11   paragraphs things that had to be filed.  And I think it was

 

12   paragraph 5 that said, "Failure to comply with the time limits

 

13   in this and the following requirements under this will result in

 

14   sanctions, including" -

 

15             THE COURT:  Probably says "may result."

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  - "may" - "may" - I'm sorry.  You're right

 

17   - "may result in sanctions."

 

18             One of the requirements was the filing of a pretrial

 

19   brief on the 13th of September.  We filed our pretrial brief.

 

20   Mr. Zlotoff filed none.  In fact, he had no intention of filing

 

21   any until on September 20th we argued before Judge Whyte, came

 

22   up indirectly in terms of whether this trial's going to go

 

23   forward or not.

 

24             We said, "How is it going to go forward?  The debtor

 

25   hasn't even complied.  He hasn't even filed a pretrial brief."

 

                                                           15

 

 1   And I think one of the specific sanctions in your order that -

 

 2   for noncompliance is postponing the trial.  Well, that's not a

 

 3   sanction because that hurts us.

 

 4             But, in any event, it's at that point that Mr. Zlotoff

 

 5   said, "Okay, I'll file a pretrial brief."

 

 6             As your own calendar for today notes, Mr. Zlotoff's

 

 7   brief was not filed until the 23rd of September.  And that's 10

 

 8   days after your order and only after the prompting before Judge

 

 9   Whyte, like - and Judge Whyte asked him the question, "Why

 

10   haven't you complied?"

 

11             So I would as a - and this is as a threshold matter,

 

12   Your Honor.  I would ask you to do what your order says.  I

 

13   think that is appropriate, to strike the brief.  I think it is

 

14   appropriate to impose sanctions for counsel's failure to comply

 

15   with your order.

 

16             And I would hope that, you know, the - that Your

 

17   Honor's order meant what it said and that there is a balance in

 

18   this proceeding that Your Honor intends to hold the debtor and

 

19   his counsel to compliance, as Your Honor has held us.

 

20             And that's the last preliminary matter I have, Your

 

21   Honor.

 

22             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Can I respond, Your Honor?

 

23             THE COURT:  Mr. Zlotoff.

 

24             MR. ZLOTOFF:  First of all, as to the brief, RTC

 

25   didn't file a quote-unquote brief either.  They filed a two-page

 

                                                           16

 

 1   statement which was nothing like a brief.  It bas- - it didn't

 

 2   have anything regarding facts.  It didn't have anything

 

 3   regarding issues.  It didn't have anything regarding legal

 

 4   argument.  It basically was a list of items that it wanted Your

 

 5   Honor to take notice of that had been filed previously.  That's

 

 6   not a brief.  That's not responsive to the trial court's order

 

 7   either.

 

 8             In fact we were both of the same mind apparently, at

 

 9   having just prepared voluminous documents just a few days

 

10   earlier with regard to motions in limine, motions for summary

 

11   judgment that we had papered this proceeding to death, and no

 

12   more need be done.  That's exactly the course you took.  So my

 

13   brief was as deficient as yours, even though your deficient

 

14   brief was filed on time.  And that's what I told Judge Whyte.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  And Judge Whyte rejected that, Your Honor.

 

16             MR. ZLOTOFF:  He didn't say a thing.

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  Excuse me.  Judge Whyte said -

 

18             THE COURT:  Look, Mr. Rosen, one counsel is talking.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  Sorry.

 

20             THE COURT:  He let you finish your argument.  Now you

 

21   let him finish.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  I will, Your Honor.  I apologize.

 

23             MR. ZLOTOFF:  With regard to the argument as to

 

24   ordering of which side goes first, I don't know that it makes a

 

25   difference.  I don't understand the argument, to be honest with

 

                                                           17

 

 1   you.  If I go first and I can't prove pick - I can't prove the

 

 2   best-interests-of-creditors test, I lose.  If I lose

 

 3   confirmation -

 

 4             THE COURT:  Well, do you - do you lose if he's

 

 5   unsecured - if he's not unsecured?

 

 6             MR. ZLOTOFF:  If my plan -

 

 7             THE COURT:  Does he have standing to raise that if

 

 8   he's not - if he's a secured creditor?

 

 9             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Right.  Well, pick another issue then.

 

10   Pick anything you want -

 

11             THE COURT:  Well, you pick another issue.

 

12             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Pick feas- -

 

13             THE COURT:  It doesn't matter.  But, anyway, if you

 

14   can't -

 

15             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Pick feasibility -

 

16             THE COURT:  If you can't make your case, -

 

17             MR. ZLOTOFF:  If I can't prove my case in chief, then

 

18   I don't get a plan confirmed and it follows that you are either

 

19   going to say I can amend it or I can't amend it or it should be

 

20   dismissed or converted.  I'm not sure we end up any - at a

 

21   different place regardless of who comes first.  I mean bad faith

 

22   is one element -

 

23             THE COURT:  Well, the way that works, as I understand

 

24   it logically, Mr. Zlotoff, is that you tried to confirm this

 

25   plan.  And you asked for time to put forward another plan.  And

 

                                                           18

 

 1   Mr. Rosen says, "No, I want to go forward with my motion."

 

 2             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Right.

 

 3             THE COURT:  And so he would then, assuming that I was

 

 4   going to let you go forward would another plan, -

 

 5             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Right.

 

 6             THE COURT:  - want to present his motion.

 

 7             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Yeah, but -

 

 8             THE COURT:  And that wouldn't necessarily be mooted by

 

 9   your failure to prove your case in the first instance.

 

10             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Right.  But I take his issue with his

 

11   pronouncement that if you find bad faith you must necessarily

 

12   dismiss the case.  I don't think that's true -

 

13             THE COURT:  I don't have to necessarily dismiss the

 

14   case.

 

15             MR. ZLOTOFF:  No.  I've - I've been involved in cases

 

16   where bad faith has been fined - found on the basis that, for

 

17   example, two low of a percentage plan, so a judge would say -

 

18             THE COURT:  But here's the problem with this, all of

 

19   this, and - when you're coming in.  You come in the minute of

 

20   trial and say, "We want court equipment."  Somebody else comes

 

21   in - or one of you is coming in and saying, "I want to go

 

22   first."

 

23             We met specifically a short time ago to iron out all

 

24   the pretrial problems.  And none - nobody asked for equipment,

 

25   nobody said, "I want to go first."  Nobody said, "If you decide

 

                                                           19

 

 1   this, then you must do that."  Nobody said any of that.  So it's

 

 2   all new, it's all on the morning of the trial, and here we are.

 

 3             Do you want to go first?

 

 4             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Your Honor, I really don't care.  It

 

 5   doesn't matter to me except with regard to the tape.  My only

 

 6   concern about the tape is whether it's a complete tape or

 

 7   whether it's been doctored, whether there have been excerpts.  I

 

 8   haven't seen it.

 

 9             THE COURT:  Well, okay, but -

 

10             MR. ZLOTOFF:  And, quite frankly, I don't have a

 

11   machine in my office to look at it, in any event.

 

12             THE COURT:  I'm not saying, but I at least want to

 

13   know that you received it.  If you didn't receive it, then

 

14   they're not going to be able to present it.  If you did receive

 

15   it, then I have a different question.  I have the relevancy

 

16   question.

 

17             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Right.

 

18             THE COURT:  And I have - whether he has an absolute

 

19   right - see, you didn't brief that either - whether he has an

 

20   absolute right to play it because it's the, quote, official

 

21   record.  If he does, that's one issue.  If he doesn't, that's

 

22   another issue.  None - none of this is briefed.  So it's a

 

23   problem.

 

24             Now do you want to go first or not?  If you say you

 

25   don't care and you want to have this document case presented

 

                                                           20

 

 1   first, then I will adjourn for a couple of minutes to let you go

 

 2   back to the office to make sure that you received this.  And in

 

 3   the meantime it would be nice if somebody gave me some authority

 

 4   as to whether he has an absolute right to - to present it or

 

 5   whether I have any discretion in the matter.

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  I'm not in - I will be happy to do that,

 

 7   except I don't understand the question.  The - the tape is being

 

 8   presented as -

 

 9             THE COURT:  Or is there an objection to the tape?

 

10   See, other than -

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  Then one -

 

12             THE COURT:  Wait, wait.

 

13             Is there an objection to the tape other than they may

 

14   not have given it to you?  If there is none, then it's not an

 

15   issue.

 

16             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Well, yeah, I had stated that I

 

17   questioned its relevancy.

 

18             THE COURT:  Oh, I understand.  But it -

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  You just stated that now.

 

20             THE COURT:  Please.  No, he didn't.  He discussed this

 

21   before.

 

22             Sit down, please, Mr. Rosen.

 

23             MR. ZLOTOFF:  That's when we got into the discussion.

 

24             THE COURT:  To save time, because I can't order briefs

 

25   at this point, I want to get this done.  To save time I would

 

                                                           21

 

 1   let him, if you have no objection, if you actually got it, I

 

 2   would let him present the tape, but I wouldn't rule on its

 

 3   admissibility until after the trial.  And I will order briefs on

 

 4   the admissibility of that document.

 

 5             It can - I will hold the ruling on admissibility, but

 

 6   to save time and to allow it to proceed, I will take it subject

 

 7   to a ruling subsequently on admissibility.  So that's what I

 

 8   will do.

 

 9             If you didn't get it, I won't let it in.  And I'll let

 

10   him present the written transcript.

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  Your Honor, can I just have 30 seconds?

 

12   Two things.

 

13             Number one, with respect to the filing of the brief,

 

14   your order doesn't require - doesn't specify what is required in

 

15   a pretrial brief.  We filed a pretrial brief which said we

 

16   incorporate and we identified the documents.  We've addressed

 

17   these issues to a fair-thee-well, to a redundancy.  We have

 

18   killed I don't know how many trees starting in July of 2000 with

 

19   the first motion to dismiss and the summary judgment and the

 

20   supplemental brief, et cetera.  We - it is a perfectly

 

21   appropriate thing, but that's not the issue.

 

22             Before Judge Whyte Mr. Zlotoff's answer was the same,

 

23   "Look what they filed."  The Judge says, "No, you don't

 

24   understand.  The question is not the sufficiency of what they

 

25   filed.  You filed nothing.  Why is that?"  That was the

 

                                                           22

 

 1   commentary.

 

 2             We have - we have ordered the transcript -

 

 3             THE COURT:  Mr. Rosen, I've already heard you.  Please

 

 4   sit down.

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  The second - the second, so I do press the

 

 6   point on the request that Your Honor do what your order says you

 

 7   would do, and impose sanctions on -

 

 8             THE COURT:  I didn't say what I would do.  That's what

 

 9   you keep - you - I think you've misled me the first time.  You

 

10   said I will impose sanctions -

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  No.  I'm sorry, may -

 

12             THE COURT:  The order says I may.

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

14             THE COURT:  I didn't commit to doing anything.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  I ask you to do that.

 

16             And the second point is Your Honor made a misstatement

 

17   and I want to correct it now because it's going to permeate this

 

18   proceeding.  You described us as a, quote, secured creditor.

 

19             THE COURT:  Well, I think you may be.  And I'll

 

20   explain to you why in a few -

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  We are both secured and unsecured.

 

22             THE COURT:  It depends upon the value of the house.

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  No.

 

24             THE COURT:  Well, we'll talk about in a minute.

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Our notice of -

 

                                                           23

 

 1             THE COURT:  Mr. Rosen, I have my papers on that issue

 

 2   in my chambers, so I'll talk to you about that -

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

 4             THE COURT:  - issue in a couple of moments.

 

 5             I had just come in to try to understand what was going

 

 6   on with the request for equipment.

 

 7             Now how far are you from here?

 

 8             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Across the street.

 

 9             THE COURT:  All right.  So you'll go to your office,

 

10   you'll see whether you received this thing.  And then you'll

 

11   tell me whether there's any objection - whether you want to go

 

12   first or you have no objection.  If you have no objection, Mr.

 

13   Rosen gets to go first, and he's promised me an hour and a half

 

14   or so of taking me through exhibits.

 

15             And if you want to go first, you'll let me know that

 

16   when you come back.  And I'll see you in about 15 minutes.

 

17             MR. ZLOTOFF:  All right, Your Honor.  Thank you.

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  Thank you.

 

19        (Recess taken from 9:33 a.m. to 10:09 a.m.)

 

20             THE COURT:  On the record, please.  Let's resume.

 

21             Did you receive the tapes?

 

22             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I have something that purports to be a

 

23   videotape, Your Honor, yes.

 

24             THE COURT:  And, Ms. Kobrin, you make an offer of

 

25   proof if called to testify you would testify that you served all

 

                                                           24

 

 1   of the videotape exhibits that are in the Court's official file

 

 2   or the Court's official exhibits on Mr. Zlotoff?

 

 3             MS. KOBRIN:  Yes, on August 1st along with a list that

 

 4   listed what they were as videotapes.

 

 5             THE COURT:  Thank you.  That issue is resolved.

 

 6             If you want to show the tape - I mean the video I'll

 

 7   let you do it subject to what I said.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  Well, is there an objection now to the

 

 9   video by counsel?

 

10             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I -

 

11             THE COURT:  You made a relevancy objection.

 

12             MR. ZLOTOFF:  You know, I've - I've just, as were

 

13   taking a break, I read the transcript.  I don't even have an

 

14   objection, yeah.

 

15             THE COURT:  That's fine.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Well, if, Your Honor, if I'm going first,

 

17   I will proceed to my opening statement on the motion to dismiss

 

18   and walk you through the exhibits.

 

19             THE COURT:  That'll be fine.

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  Your Honor, would it - may I have

 

21   permission to do it from here?

 

22             THE COURT:  Yes, of course.

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Because I'm handling these volumes of

 

24   exhibits.

 

25             THE COURT:  It's standard in my court.  It's no

 

                                                           25

 

 1   problem.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Let me begin by - by

 

 3             THE COURT:  Let me interrupt you one second.

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  Sure.

 

 5             THE COURT:  Whenever you want to talk about that

 

 6   secured, unsecured issue, both of you, I can talk to you a

 

 7   little bit about it.  But we can do that after you're finished.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  I was going to address it in my - in the

 

 9   presentation, but I'd certainly be interested in hearing Your

 

10   Honor's comments on it now.

 

11             THE COURT:  The Court's Docket demonstrates that the

 

12   case was dismissed on April 28th, 1998, but the dismissal was

 

13   vacated by the Court's order of July 25th, 1998.  My

 

14   understanding is that Creditor's Abstract of Judgment was

 

15   recorded in the middle of those two dates, on June 9th, 1998.

 

16             At that point Mr. Henson's case had been dismissed for

 

17   several weeks, but dismissal was later set aside.  So there's a

 

18   legal issue as to whether the automatic stay was reimposed

 

19   retroactively when the dismissal order was vacated, in which

 

20   case the recondition violated the stay and is void under the

 

21   Schwartz case; or whether vacating the dismissal order did no

 

22   more than reimpose the automatic stay for the future, in which

 

23   the case the recondition did not violate the stay and is not

 

24   void.

 

25             The order vacating the dismissal says that it's done

 

                                                           26

 

 1   prospectively.  Also In re Kruger, 88 BR 238, Ninth Circuit BAP

 

 2   1988, held that the automatic stay was in effect between

 

 3   dismissal and an order vacating dismissal, but that holding was

 

 4   based on the dismissal order being void as a violation of due

 

 5   process.

 

 6             In re Slyman (phonetic), 234 F.3d 1081, Ninth Circuit

 

 7   2000, relied on Kruger to hold the same where the dismissal

 

 8   order was based on failure to attend a hearing, and was vacated

 

 9   upon debtor's claim that he received no notice of the hearing.

 

10   Here the Docket shows that the dismissal order was on the

 

11   trustee's request after debtor had failed to appear at the 341

 

12   meeting.  But I don't - I don't believe there was an argument by

 

13   the debtor that he had no notice of the meeting.

 

14             I think, if I recall, he thought the case had already

 

15   been dismissed on his request that he made without legal advice,

 

16   but then realized that he did have to be in Chapter 13.  So it

 

17   doesn't sound to me at this point as if the dismissal order was

 

18   void as having been issued for lack of due process.  And that's

 

19   what both Kruger and Slyman rely on to find that the stay

 

20   continued in effect despite the dismissal order.  Neither of

 

21   those cases holds that the effect of vacating a dismissal order

 

22   is to resurrect the stay retroactively.  And, in fact, they

 

23   don't address that issue.

 

24             362(c)(2) provides that the stay expires as to the

 

25   debtor upon the earlier of the time the case is closed or

 

                                                           27

 

 1   dismissed or discharge is granted or denied, while 362(c)(1)

 

 2   provides that the stay expires as to estate property when the

 

 3   property ceases to be estate property under 349(b)(3) - I'm

 

 4   sorry - property.  And 349(b)(3) provides that dismissal vests

 

 5   all estate property in whomever owned it prepetition.

 

 6             So a dismissal order that isn't void and is merely

 

 7   voidable does terminate the stay for all purposes.

 

 8             Accordingly, it appears as if the creditor's lien is

 

 9   not void as a stay violation.  And that means depending on what

 

10   the value of the house is, the creditor may be fully secured and

 

11   thus lack standing to object on the basis of the Chapter 7 test

 

12   or the disposable income requirement.  Or the creditor may be

 

13   partly or wholly unsecured, thus not lack standing.

 

14             That's my - my preliminary remarks, and you can do

 

15   them with whatever you whose.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Well, let me respond to them because I

 

17   agree with everything except the last sentence, and I'll tell

 

18   you why.

 

19             We have filed a notice of claim which - which I think

 

20   amounts to about two hundred - a little less than a quarter of a

 

21   million dollars.  We've also - we also have additional claims

 

22   which some of these are postbankruptcy, including the judgment

 

23   that I just handed up to you of yesterday of Judge Whyte on the

 

24   latest contempt proceeding against Mr. Henson.

 

25             The point is that the - the Abstract of Judgment we

 

                                                           28

 

 1   filed against the house, against the debtor's house is only in

 

 2   the amount of $75,000, being the amount of the judgment that was

 

 3   entered upon the jury verdict.  The statement that you made that

 

 4   if there was - let's say there's 200,000 or a half a million

 

 5   dollars available from the sale of the house, available to the

 

 6   creditor, and we have a stipulation there is only one creditor,

 

 7   us, that we are, quote, secured is incorrect.  Because since our

 

 8   security filing, our Abstract of Judgment filing only is the

 

 9   amount of the judgment that we were able to file at that time,

 

10   which was $75,000, we have additional claims and judgments

 

11   against the creditor [sic] which are - which are part of the

 

12   bankruptcy proceeding in that they arise from claims which -

 

13   which existed prior to the filing of the petition.  For example,

 

14   the award of attorney's fees.  We could not file those as an

 

15   abstract of judgment against the house because there was an

 

16   intervening order of this Court that you just mentioned

 

17   reinstating the bankruptcy petition.

 

18             So it is correct to say that if there is at least

 

19   $75,000 from the proceeds of the sale of the house available to

 

20   pay us, that we are a secured creditor for that 75,- or any part

 

21   of it.  I don't believe it is correct to say that we are a

 

22   secured creditor for all of our claims.  Because in the best of

 

23   circumstances we could only enforce our security to the amount

 

24   of $75,000.  That's the amount of the lien.  So we will always

 

25   be in this proceeding both as a secured creditor and an

 

                                                           29

 

 1   unsecured creditor.

 

 2             THE COURT:  Do you agree, Mr. Zlotoff?

 

 3             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Not entirely, because what they've done

 

 4   in their claim - I've talked to Ms. Seid.  And Ms. Seid concedes

 

 5   that a good chunk of the claim is for postpetition debt.

 

 6             So the question is - for example, the contempt, I

 

 7   don't know why that would be prepetition debt and subject to the

 

 8   claim.  And there are similar other contempt judgments or orders

 

 9   that form part of the - whether the attorney's fee part is part

 

10   of the judgment is an interesting question.  I suppose it

 

11   probably is -

 

12             THE COURT:  I didn't mean to get into this because

 

13   we'll - we could spend a lot of time.  I wanted to give you my

 

14   preliminary remarks.  You've now given me your preliminary

 

15   remarks.  I don't need to resolve this at this moment.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

17             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Could I just make one other comment,

 

18   Your Honor?  Because I - I was - I was aware of the situation.

 

19   And actually there is a transcript of the hearing in which the

 

20   Court heard the debtor's request to reimpose the stay - or

 

21   reopen the case, I think is what it was - set aside the

 

22   dismissal.

 

23             And I think on page 51 and 52 - I faxed this to Ms.

 

24   Seid - the Court stated in connection with reopening the case

 

25   that it intended, as I recall, that the case be in the posture

 

                                                           30

 

 1   that it was at the time of dismissal.  So that the order is not

 

 2   completely - is not completely in sync with the pronouncement,

 

 3   the rendering that the Court made -

 

 4             THE COURT:  Who wrote the order?

 

 5             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Pardon me?

 

 6             THE COURT:  Who wrote the order?

 

 7             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I wrote the order.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  Your Honor, just so the record is complete

 

 9   on this.  Mr. Zlotoff faxed to us a sound bite of 51 and 52.  He

 

10   has the transcript, by his own admission.  He knows that in that

 

11   transcript at least two times, I think one of them is on page

 

12   53, Your Honor made it clear that the order that was not the

 

13   intention of the Court to retroactively criticize or set aside

 

14   anything that was done.  And, in fact, Your Honor was aware at

 

15   the time of the hearing that there had been an Abstract of

 

16   Judgment filed.

 

17             Mr. Zlotoff unfortunately is giving the Court a sound

 

18   bite out of context, and he has the transcript and he knows that

 

19   that's what Your Honor said.

 

20             More importantly, whatever -

 

21             THE COURT:  Mr. Rosen, let's stop.  I don't want to go

 

22   on any further.  You asked for my preliminary remarks.  I didn't

 

23   want to turn this into an oral argument.

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

25             THE COURT:  Let's proceed with the evidence, please.

 

                                                           31

 

 1             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Your Honor, I might just address

 

 2   your attention out of order to Exhibit 195.  And I will not

 

 3   argue your preliminary remarks further.  I just ask you to note

 

 4   that this is the amended proof of claim, and we have identified

 

 5   the portions that are, we believe, are postpetition.  So that

 

 6   when Your Honor considers it further in a nonpreliminary manner,

 

 7   if Your Honor would just make a note that Exhibit 195 is what

 

 8   Your Honor needs to be addressing and in terms of certainly my

 

 9   comments as to why we're both secured and unsecured.

 

10             With that, let me - what I would like to do, with the

 

11   Court's permission, is as follows.  I will make my opening

 

12   statement now on our motion to dismiss the petition.  And in the

 

13   course of it I think the best assistance I can give the Court is

 

14   to walk the Court through the exhibits so that the Court doesn't

 

15   have to guess, if you will, as to what exhibits relate to what

 

16   issue.

 

17             I should also -

 

18             THE COURT:  As long as you do it in about an hour and

 

19   a half, that'll be fine.

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah, I think I could do it.

 

21             I would also point out the following.  We have not -

 

22   since this is one combined trial, we have not segregated

 

23   exhibits for the motion-to-dismiss part versus the Chapter 13

 

24   part.  And, in fact, there is a substantial overlap.

 

25             So I'm - I'm putting all the exhibits in, but, for

 

                                                           32

 

 1   example, exhibits on bad faith in the Chapter 13 proceeding,

 

 2   discovery misconduct, et cetera, in our view are going to be

 

 3   relevant to both.  So I'm doing double duty here.

 

 4             When I'm done with these I've put in indirectly, if

 

 5   you will, my exhibits on both sides of the case.

 

 6             THE COURT:  It may be helpful for me if you then go

 

 7   through it on your own when we recess and just tell me exhibits

 

 8   you think apply to which issue.

 

 9         OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF THE CREDITOR

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Let me give you - let me give you

 

11   the larger picture.  The larger picture of our case and our

 

12   theory of the case is as follows.

 

13             Mr. Henson formed a plan in 19- - or late '95, early

 

14   '96.  The plan was to taunt and to abuse the Scientology

 

15   religion and the various churches within it.  Not for profit.

 

16   He's not an infringer who, like in Napster, who's trying to make

 

17   economic gain, but for his, as the evidence will show, for his

 

18   amusement, for just the fun of taunting a religion.  And for,

 

19   most importantly, his stature.

 

20             And you're going to hear evidence about Mr. Henson's

 

21   little club that gives out awards for who can cause the church -

 

22   the Scientology religion the most pain or the most discomfort.

 

23             You will also hear Mr. Henson testifying and admitting

 

24   about how the copyright infringement part, which was the

 

25   beginning of his - of his ongoing scheme of harassment of

 

                                                           33

 

 1   Scientology for no reason other than amusement, was to see how

 

 2   much money he could cause the church to spend.  And you will

 

 3   hear and see deposition testimony of, "It's great.  I mean I'm

 

 4   pro se.  All it will cost me is I've got to go out and buy a

 

 5   ream of paper every once in a while and I can cause them to

 

 6   spend million dollars of dollars.  Isn't that wonderful."

 

 7             The reason I say this is because one has to put in

 

 8   context in a totality of circumstances what this is about.  This

 

 9   - this kind of bizarre motivation, if you will, one of pure

 

10   malice to hurt the Scientology religion is the is the

 

11   underpinning of the entire proceedings that have been going on

 

12   now for almost seven years.

 

13             They start with the copyright infringement case.  They

 

14   proceed then in the filing of this bankruptcy petition for the

 

15   purpose of - the stated purpose by Mr. Henson, admitted, of

 

16   derailing the trial of the federal - of the copyright case in

 

17   this very court before Judge Whyte.

 

18             Mr. Henson's overall scheme and enterprise of - of

 

19   hurting the Scientology religion continues with picketing, with

 

20   his activity of threats that resulted in his criminal conviction

 

21   in Riverside County for violation of the California Hate Crime

 

22   Statute, and then his fugitive status.  And from his lair in -

 

23   in - outside this country, he continues to revel in the idea of

 

24   causing all kinds of discomfort to - and then costs to the

 

25   Scientology religion.

 

                                                           34

 

 1             That has permeated this entire proceeding and, in

 

 2   fact, continues right up to now.  The September 26th order of

 

 3   Judge Whyte, which I handed up at the beginning of this,

 

 4   exemplifies it.

 

 5             The - Mr. Henson's contempt and his willingness to do

 

 6   things to - to injure the Scientology religion continues.  It

 

 7   has never abated.  It is the one abiding motivation.  Malicious

 

 8   but abiding motivation that has permeated this entire

 

 9   proceeding.  That is our theory of the case, if you will, in

 

10   terms of the bad faith.

 

11             Now is that all that there is?  No.  Let's look at the

 

12   bankruptcy proceeding - proceeding itself.

 

13             Mr. Henson originally prepared the petition in

 

14   December of '97 to - to derail what was then the trial date set

 

15   by Judge Whyte for the copyright case.  In February of - he

 

16   didn't file it because Judge Whyte put it off.  In February of

 

17   '98 he did file it.

 

18             I want Your Honor to understand the circumstances that

 

19   existed in February of '98.  Mr. Henson is making, according to

 

20   his schedule, $130,000 a year.  He is - he has money in the

 

21   bank.  He has no debts other than debts in the ordinary course.

 

22   He is current on his mortgage.  He's current on his credit

 

23   cards.  Okay.

 

24             What is he facing?  He's facing a trial on statutory

 

25   damages in the copyright case.  The statutory damages are - that

 

                                                           35

 

 1   the jury could award - are anywhere from $500 for nonwillful

 

 2   infringement to a maximum of $100,000.  Mr. Henson certainly,

 

 3   and he - and of course the maximum for - for without a finding

 

 4   of willfulness is only $10,000, so it's $500 to 10,000 for

 

 5   nonwillful.  Could Mr. Henson have paid a judgment of that

 

 6   amount?  Of course.

 

 7             Mr. Henson, as we have now stipulated, had equity in

 

 8   his house over and above the mortgage, or what you call in

 

 9   California I think the first deed of trust at that time of

 

10   approximately $160,000.  So there was no impending claim, if you

 

11   will.  There was unliquidated claim.

 

12             But the key part is the liquidate - the amount itself

 

13   of the potential claim, because a jury cannot award more than

 

14   10,000 for nonwillful and more than a hundred thousand for

 

15   willful under the Copyright Act, there was no need to file a

 

16   bankruptcy petition other than for the sole purpose of derailing

 

17   the trial.

 

18             Well, he filed it.  And after Your Honor lifted the

 

19   stay to allow the bankruptcy petition - excuse me - the

 

20   copyright proceeding to go forward, Mr. Henson withdrew it and

 

21   he has admitted that the reason he filed his notice of

 

22   withdrawal in March of 1998 of his bankruptcy petition was

 

23   because it no longer served any purpose, because the stay had

 

24   been lifted.  That was the only purpose for filing it in the

 

25   first place.  Once that purpose was no longer available because

 

                                                           36

 

 1   Your Honor lifted the automatic stay, he didn't have any need

 

 2   for the bankruptcy petition anymore.

 

 3             He knew ever at that time what he was facing was a

 

 4   judgment which in the best of circumstances, willful

 

 5   infringement maximum - and there has never been a case, there

 

 6   has never been a case of a hundred thousand dollars maximum ever

 

 7   awarded reported in the history of the United States.  In fact,

 

 8   the 75,000 that the jury ultimately awarded in this case itself

 

 9   is a record.  There has never been a copyright case in the

 

10   United - ever reported in the United States in which a single

 

11   infringed work gave rise to a judgment of $75,000 in statutory

 

12   damages.

 

13             And I think you'll see why when we show the tape as to

 

14   what motivated the jury to give what was an extraordinary award.

 

15   But the point is and the point that I don't want to miss is, in

 

16   the financial status, in the sense of need, in the sense of I

 

17   know an archaic notion, and it's not bankruptcy statute standard

 

18   of are his assets more than his liabilities.  Could he not

 

19   afford to pay a judgment.  The answer is clearly none.  And that

 

20   only reinforces that his use of the bankruptcy proceeding was

 

21   solely for - was an abuse and was solely for purposes of - of

 

22   derailing the - the infringement trial.

 

23             Mr. Henson's bad faith then continues in the following

 

24   way.  False statements in the bankruptcy petition and his

 

25   schedules.  And we have detailed these before you and we will

 

                                                           37

 

 1   present them as part of the Exhibits, Number 1, valuation of his

 

 2   house.  He knowingly valued - listed the value of his house as

 

 3   the amount he paid for it.  And he admits that he made no

 

 4   inquiry as to whether there was a - any increase in value since

 

 5   the time he paid.  Nor did he make any - and not $1 allowance

 

 6   for the amount of the - of the mortgage he had paid down.  He

 

 7   listed the mortgage in full as it was on the date that he got

 

 8   the mortgage.

 

 9             Everybody knows that even no matter what the

 

10   amortization table, you've - when you make a monthly payment,

 

11   might be 95 or 97 percent interest, but there is some portion of

 

12   every mortgage which is amortizing the debt.  No attempt to even

 

13   compute this.

 

14             His position was, "Here's what I paid for the house."

 

15             What else?  Life insurance.  Mr. Henson not only

 

16   listed no life insurance policies in his bankruptcy petition,

 

17   but repeatedly denied it, repeatedly denied that he had any life

 

18   insurance policies.

 

19             In fact, and I don't fault my brother Mr. Zlotoff for

 

20   this because I'm sure he was relying only on what Mr. Henson

 

21   told him, based on what Mr. Henson told Mr. Zlotoff, you're

 

22   going to see three exhibits, 47, 56, and 67, in every one of

 

23   which, and this is well into the discovery, the representation

 

24   is made that Mr. Henson doesn't have any life insurance policy

 

25   other than a term policy.

 

                                                           38

 

 1             Okay.  Well, we found out that that was false, that he

 

 2   has a whole life policy.  That whole life policy had a cash

 

 3   surrender value.

 

 4             THE COURT:  Of?

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  It was approximately $7200 at the time.

 

 6   It was not disclosed.  And we had to ferret this out.

 

 7             Nowhere in his - it's not just that he didn't put it

 

 8   in his bankruptcy filing, it said he swore under oath he didn't

 

 9   have any.  And he has his counsel do his work for him and have

 

10   his counsel represent to us in three exhibits that there's no

 

11   such policy.

 

12             The next major riff on his - and I'm not going to go

 

13   over all of them because we have briefed you already on the

 

14   deficiencies in his filings, but the next one is stock.  He

 

15   lists zero stock as - no stock as an asset.  What do we find out

 

16   when we finally do get his records?  We go through the records

 

17   and we see a check.  He - I forget, some corporation, I don't

 

18   know what the name of it was, maybe Xanadu or something like

 

19   that.  We ask him, "What is this?"

 

20             "Well, we bought stock in the company."

 

21             This was a private company that he was involved in.  I

 

22   don't - I think it was only about $5,000, but the key is this

 

23   was within, I think, three months or four months.  It was $7500,

 

24   I'm reminded.  Within four months before he filed that

 

25   bankruptcy petition.

 

                                                           39

 

 1             Now I would understand that perhaps over a period of

 

 2   time he might say that, 'Well, I paid $7500 for the stock and it

 

 3   went the way of the dot-coms and after a period of time it

 

 4   became worthless,' but there isn't even a disclosure of it.  And

 

 5   he has no evidence that he was able to present that the stock

 

 6   was worth was as of the time of the petition.  So we have

 

 7   another omission, a substantial omission from his schedules.

 

 8             The next is the artwork.  How do we find out about

 

 9   artwork?  Nothing - none of which is listed in his bankruptcy

 

10   schedule.  We find out about it through an examination of - of

 

11   his wife.  We find out about it from a home - home owner's

 

12   insurance policy which insures - which is in the name of Mr.

 

13   Henson and his wife which insures artwork.

 

14             THE COURT:  For how much?

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  What's the amount of the policy?  I mean

 

16   what's the valuation?

 

17             I have it here.  If you'll just give me a second I'll

 

18   tell you how much it is.  It's in your brief.

 

19             Nine thousand two hundred and fifty dollars as of

 

20   1995.  What was produced was an insurance policy that covered

 

21   1995, a home owner's with an art endors- - art insurance

 

22   endorsement.

 

23             So, again, I mean even apart from the fact that there

 

24   is no - that we don't know what the enhancement of any, and the

 

25   value was as of the time of the petition, the fact is this asset

 

                                                           40

 

 1   is not even disclosed in his petition.

 

 2             Okay.  We go on.  We find, we understand I guess, when

 

 3   we get to the other side of it, the expenses, these numbers are

 

 4   crazy, and Mr. Henson concedes when we ask him in deposition or

 

 5   - I call it deposition.  I know I'm not using the right

 

 6   terminology, maybe 2004 exam, but I deal in depositions.  To me

 

 7   it's the same, although I know it's not to the Court.

 

 8             We ask him about his expenses, and his testimony is

 

 9   wild-ass guesses.  He didn't sit down and go over records in

 

10   dealing with listing out his expenses.  He took the short cut.

 

11   He said, "I'll just list my wild-ass guesses."

 

12             Now let's look at the rest of his bankruptcy petition.

 

13   What happens then?  He intentionally omits any disclosure of

 

14   other debts.  He had credit card debts that were in the ordinary

 

15   course.  They weren't in default, but he was carrying credit

 

16   card balances.  He didn't even disclose this in bankruptcy

 

17   petition.

 

18             THE COURT:  But he had been paying them off every

 

19   month?

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  Yes.  He was current in the sense that

 

21   whatever the minimum amount - he was paying at least the minimum

 

22   amount each month, so he wasn't in default -

 

23             THE COURT:  He wasn't paying the full amount each

 

24   amount?

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Correct.  He was paying a portion.  And he

 

                                                           41

 

 1   explained, I think, and Your Honor I think heard this before,

 

 2   that what he does is this is - use this for business and he has

 

 3   to advance funds.  Then he gets paid by his clients, or whatever

 

 4   it is, so he can make up the - he's got to carry the float, if

 

 5   you will, of paying the credit card company for expenditures

 

 6   made in his business before he get reimbursed by his client.

 

 7             He never disclosed any of that.  There isn't a single

 

 8   credit card debt disclosed in his - in his application.

 

 9             THE COURT:  How many were there?

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  Thousands.

 

11             THE COURT:  No.  How many - he doesn't have thousands

 

12   of credit cards.  How many credit cards are we talking about?

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  In his own name or ones - including the

 

14   ones in his wife's name?

 

15             THE COURT:  His own name.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Or the ones in joint name?  There are

 

17   three kinds -

 

18             THE COURT:  Well, I guess but not his wife only.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  I believe there were four.

 

20             THE COURT:  Four credit cards?

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  There were some in his name.  There

 

22   were, I believe, one or two in joint name, and the rest were -

 

23   and then there were additional ones that were just in his wife's

 

24   name.  None of this is disclosed in this petition.

 

25             Next - next comes the discovery.  And I really ought

 

                                                           42

 

 1   not have to spend a lot on this issue because Your Honor was

 

 2   painfully aware of it.  The work that we had to go through to

 

 3   get discovery, Mr. Henson's obstruction of it.  The number - the

 

 4   Docket speaks volumes as to the number of motions, which I've -

 

 5   unless I'm miss - I misrecollect, every single one was granted

 

 6   by this Court.  The number of motions we had to make to compel

 

 7   discovery because Mr. Henson just stonewalled it.

 

 8             Next we come to his admission in deposition:

 

 9   Destruction of documents.  It was a big joke.  "Well, we had

 

10   this fireplace."  Where's the underlying records for - it came

 

11   up in the context of a tax return.  "Where are the underlying

 

12   records to support these expenditures?"

 

13             And it was a big joke.  "Ah, we had a fireplace.  It

 

14   was - you know, we needed some warmth.  We threw in the

 

15   fireplace."  That's his testimony.

 

16             THE COURT:  This was after the subpoena was served, he

 

17   threw documents, or before?

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  I don't know.  I -

 

19             THE COURT:  I'd like to know that -

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.

 

21             THE COURT:  - at least at some point in your

 

22   presentation.

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Correct.  I don't know what the answer is,

 

24   but I do know that the documents - we were dealing with a

 

25   current tax return.  I think it was for 1997.  Under the law

 

                                                           43

 

 1   while Your Honor is addressing a spoilation issue, you know,

 

 2   "Did you have notice when you threw it away"; under the law he's

 

 3   required to keep it.  The Internal Revenue Code requires -

 

 4   requires that you retain copies of all documents which support

 

 5   any claim for three years after filing date.

 

 6             THE COURT:  Yeah.  With all due respect, the inference

 

 7   vis-a-vis good faith or bad faith may - may be the distinction

 

 8   between whether it was before or after the subpoena might be

 

 9   relevant.

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  Well, I - I don't -

 

11             THE COURT:  So I'd like to know.  I want to ask - I

 

12   don't want to argue.  I just want to know if you know.

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  I was going to say I don't disagree with

 

14   you.  And I will - we will get that information as to when the

 

15   destruction occurred, according to Mr. Henson.

 

16             Next we have the remarkable proposition of Mr. Henson

 

17   saying to us on the record in the 2004 exam a demand for

 

18   extortion:  "You want me to leave you alone.  Give me $5

 

19   million."  That's there in black and white.  It's part of our

 

20   exhibits.

 

21             Next is we have Chapter 13 plan proposal, which

 

22   proposes to pay us nothing.  And again I'm dealing in a context

 

23   of a secured, unsecured creditor, because we weren't at that

 

24   point talking about selling the house.  We're talking about the

 

25   plan as originally proposed.

 

                                                           44

 

 1             The plan on its face proposes four percent payment to

 

 2   us gross, but it's a payment to the estate and it is subject to

 

 3   the priority of the other claims of administration.  The very

 

 4   first fee application Your Honor approved for my brother at the

 

 5   other table exceeded and wiped out the entirety.  So as a - you

 

 6   know one can say, 'Well, the plan provided a four-percent

 

 7   payment to an unsecured creditor,' but that's nonsense.  That's

 

 8   form over substance.  The plan provided zero.

 

 9             The very first order I believe Your Honor entered, and

 

10   I don't think we even opposed it, for Mr. Zlotoff's fees, was

 

11   more than the $9,000 aggregate payments proposed under the plan.

 

12   The original plan that Mr. Henson filed was something like $75 a

 

13   month.  And then there was another one.  But the one that is -

 

14   was before you that he ultimately filed with Mr. Zlotoff's

 

15   assistance was $150 a month for 60 months.  That's $9,000.

 

16             If he were not paying Mr. Zlotoff out of that money,

 

17   if he had made separate arrangements to pay Mr. Zlotoff on his

 

18   credit card, as he did with other people who he didn't put on

 

19   his bankruptcy petition, -

 

20             THE COURT:  Yeah.  Ms. Seid will tell you he can't do

 

21   that.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  He did it.

 

23             THE COURT:  Paid Mr. Zlotoff separately from -

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  No, no.  He paid other attorneys

 

25   separately, oh, yeah.

 

                                                           45

 

 1             THE COURT:  During the bankruptcy?

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  During the bankruptcy.  Oh, sure.  Put it

 

 3   on his credit card.

 

 4             That's how he paid his - Mr. Harr, a criminal attorney

 

 5   who represented him in California, -

 

 6             THE COURT:  I see.

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  - in Riverside County.  Okay.

 

 8             THE COURT:  But he didn't pay Mr. Zlotoff that way?

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  No, no, no.  I don't suggest he did.

 

10             But the point I was making is knowing that he cannot

 

11   make a payment to Mr. Zlotoff while in bankruptcy other than

 

12   through the process of Mr. Zlotoff's application to the Court

 

13   for approval of his fees, from the get-go, it was even before

 

14   Your Honor issued the first order approving, it was a

 

15   zero-payment plan.  There was no way in the world that one could

 

16   ever contemplate that the course of administration would leave

 

17   one nickel left.  That's what he proposed:  To pay us zero.

 

18             And, by the way, to the extent it is relevant and we

 

19   believe it is, that is exacerbated by the fact that this is not

 

20   a claim which is dischargeable in a 7.  This is a claim for

 

21   willful infringement that is statutory punitive damages under a

 

22   federal statute for malicious conduct.  So that makes it even

 

23   worse, to propose a payment of zero to a creditor who has a

 

24   claim of nature, which is exhibited in a federal court judgment

 

25   makes it even more offensive.

 

                                                           46

 

 1             Okay.  We go through the additional elements of bad

 

 2   faith.  And, again, I don't mean to cast aspirations across the

 

 3   aisle.  Even right now, before this Court, the debtor has put

 

 4   in, and just - and put in also before Judge Whyte, the opinion

 

 5   of Judge March, Bankruptcy Judge in Los Angeles, respecting the

 

 6   dispute, the subpoenaed dispute, over the deposition of Henson's

 

 7   daughter.

 

 8             In both proceedings, both before this Court and before

 

 9   Judge Whyte, we argued that is sanctionable conduct, to put in a

 

10   decision of a Bankruptcy Judge - of any judge - that was

 

11   reversed and you know it was reversed.  We told you it was

 

12   reversed.

 

13             If Your Honor has not yet seen - I won't hand it up,

 

14   but if Your Honor has not yet seen Judge Whyte's decision of

 

15   February - excuse me - of September - what's the date on that?

 

16        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  - September 24th on the motion for Mrs.

 

18   Kobrin to intervene and to withdraw the reference, there is a

 

19   discussion of this very issue by Judge Whyte.  I'm not going to

 

20   quote it.  You can read it yourself.  But that's part of overall

 

21   egregious conduct and bad faith.

 

22             The final element - and I'm speaking only in broad

 

23   brushes, Your Honor, obviously.  This is a highlight reel.  The

 

24   final element is - oh, and what went with that is the

 

25   representation of Judge Whyte's order, an initial order on

 

                                                           47

 

 1   attorney's fees, which everybody knew was reversed.  And here

 

 2   again you put in an order of a district court judge and you

 

 3   don't disclose that the Ninth Circuit has reversed it.  And I

 

 4   just - you know, I won't say anything about my personal views on

 

 5   - on that, but that certainly is part of it.

 

 6             Before I get to the exhibits themselves, my last

 

 7   comment, again this is a highlight reel, and the exhibits in our

 

 8   briefs address some more issues, but I've given you what I think

 

 9   are the highlights, if you will, as to what makes up the bad

 

10   faith claim for dismissal under - under the statute.

 

11             I want to just identify for you, Your Honor, what we

 

12   view is the legal framework in which this motion comes before

 

13   you.  And I should say with all due respect, we are proceeding

 

14   to this trial under a reservation of rights obviously.  We're

 

15   not waiving our appellate rights -

 

16             THE COURT:  Well, nobody waives their appellate rights

 

17   when they go to a trial.

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  I understand that.

 

19             THE COURT:  Why would you tell a judge that?

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  No, no.  I just say I want the record to

 

21   be clear that -

 

22             THE COURT:  The record is always clear.  Mr. Rosen, -

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  - that, you know, -

 

24             THE COURT:  - you and I are experienced.  We graduated

 

25   from law school at about the same time.  And you don't need to

 

                                                           48

 

 1   say that.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Well, I don't know the rules in

 

 3   bankruptcy.  And I know the rules in bankruptcy when you appeal

 

 4   a bankruptcy order are entirely different than the rules I'm

 

 5   familiar with under 1291 and 1292, when you appeal from a

 

 6   district court to a circuit court of appeals.

 

 7             THE COURT:  You don't have to warn any judge that you

 

 8   could appeal them, Mr. Rosen.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  I wasn't warning.  I was just saying we're

 

10   preserving.

 

11             THE COURT:  Sure, I know.  But you've already appealed

 

12   me two or three times.  I know you know how to appeal, Mr.

 

13   Rosen.  It's a - it's a bullying tactic.

 

14             MR. ROSEN:  Well, I'm sorry, Your Honor, if you view

 

15   that as a bullying tactic.  My comment was simply to state for

 

16   the record that we preserve our position respecting the summary

 

17   judgment motion that we had filed and why - and our view that we

 

18   thought it should have been granted.  But that's okay.  If you

 

19   consider that bullying, I - you know, that's in your perception,

 

20   not mine.  I don't bully judges.

 

21             In any event, getting back to the proposition, the

 

22   legal framework in which we - we address this issue is as

 

23   follows.  And I'm going to give you only three cases.  I'd give

 

24   you many cases, but I'll give you the top line.

 

25             THE COURT:  What are these cases supposed to show?

 

                                                           49

 

 1             MR. ROSEN:  This is the legal framework in which this

 

 2   issue is being decided, the 1307 issue.

 

 3             Number one is the Jennifer Ho, H-o, case.  It's a

 

 4   decision of the BAP of the Ninth Circuit.  It is reported at 274

 

 5   BR 867.  The case stands for the unremarkable proposition - and

 

 6   it's one of many cases I could cite to you for this, but just to

 

 7   give you, you know, one case - stands for the proposition that

 

 8   bad faith in filing a Chapter 13 petition is, quote, cause under

 

 9   1307, even though cause, bad faith is not listed as a specific

 

10   statutory definition under the cause definition in that.

 

11             Secondly, it is again unremarkable in the - in setting

 

12   forth that a Court in determining whether under 1307 whether a

 

13   Chapter 13 petition was filed in bad faith should consider the

 

14   following.  And I don't believe the list is exclusive, but it's

 

15   certainly illustrative.  Number one, whether the debtor

 

16   misrepresented facts in petition or plan; or unfairly

 

17   manipulated Bankruptcy Code -

 

18             THE COURT:  Mr. Rosen, this should have been in a

 

19   brief.  Why are you doing this now?

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  It is in our brief.

 

21             THE COURT:  So why are you doing - why are you

 

22   repeating this?

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Well, it's part of my opening statement as

 

24   to what - as to the framework in which we're looking at this

 

25   evidence.  And if Your Honor will bear with me, it's very short.

 

                                                           50

 

 1             Number two, the debtor's history of filings and

 

 2   dismissals, which depending on your view this is the second

 

 3   versus the revitalized first one.

 

 4             Number three, whether the debtor's purpose in filing

 

 5   for Chapter 13 was to defeat state court litigation.  Here again

 

 6   it's not - the case makes it clear that that in and of itself is

 

 7   not bad faith.  However, it's a factor to be considered.  And

 

 8   here it's exacerbated by the fact that it is not state court

 

 9   litigation.  It is litigation in this district in the federal

 

10   court.

 

11             And number three [sic], other egregious behavior is

 

12   present.  And that's really a kind of a catch-all thing.  And

 

13   the Ninth Circuit says, and it's said several times, that the

 

14   Court's task is to look at the totality of the circumstances.

 

15             The case also stands for the proposition, again not

 

16   unremarkable, that if the Court finds bad faith under 1307 it

 

17   can do one of two things.  It can either convert the 13 to a 7

 

18   or it can dismiss.  And it sets forth the standard:  The best

 

19   interest - the Court is - is directed to exercise its discretion

 

20   - its discretion on the following ground:  What is in the best

 

21   interests of the creditors and the estate.  And I'm reading from

 

22   page 9 of that decision.

 

23             This is critical because it is not what's in the best

 

24   interests of the debtor.  It's what's in the best interests of

 

25   the creditors and the estate as to whether it should be

 

                                                           51

 

 1   dismissal or conversion.  In fact, the option that is given to

 

 2   the Court under 1307 is to be exercised in favor of the

 

 3   creditors and the estate against the debtor.  This is there to

 

 4   protect the creditors and, in fact, in a case which later

 

 5   displays the issue, where, for example, the creditors might be

 

 6   better off with a conversion because they would have rights to

 

 7   set aside preferences and transfers that they would not have

 

 8   with the bankruptcy petition dismissed.

 

 9             In any event, the proposition is the Court's

 

10   discretion is to be exercised under 1307 in favor of the

 

11   creditors.

 

12             We also have here, as I said earlier, the proposition

 

13   - the stipulation that there is only one creditor, and that's in

 

14   the stipulated pretrial order that we submitted.

 

15             The second of three cases I'm going to bring to your

 

16   attention is the Leavitt case.  The Leavitt case is cited in our

 

17   brief.  And again it has an explication of bad faith, et cetera,

 

18   and cause for dismissal under 1307.  And I certainly commend

 

19   that to Your Honor because that is the Ninth Circuit itself.

 

20   And that's the case that the BAP cites to in the Ho decision.

 

21             The Ho decision, by the way, I brought to your

 

22   attention because it is February 13th of this year.  It's a very

 

23   current decision.

 

24             And the last of the three cases I want to bring to

 

25   your attention, which I think states the obvious as well, is a

 

                                                           52

 

 1   decision of - of Judge Klein in the Eastern District of

 

 2   California in a case called In re Staff Investment Co.  And that

 

 3   is cited at 146 BR 256.

 

 4             THE COURT:  Is that in your brief?

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  No, this one's not.  We just found this

 

 6   one.

 

 7             THE COURT:  Give me the number again then, the -

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  146 BR 256.

 

 9             THE COURT:  Date?

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  January 5, 1993.

 

11             MR. ZLOTOFF:  What's the name of the case?

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  In re Staff Investment Co.

 

13             The reason this case is interesting because it is

 

14   similar to our case in the sense that there was really only one

 

15   creditor, and the question of what the Court should do under

 

16   1307, dismiss versus convert to a - to a 7, the case is the only

 

17   one in this district, in the - California that we have found,

 

18   many others - there are cases in other districts, but I know

 

19   Your Honor's preference is for cases either in the Ninth Circuit

 

20   or in the courts of California -

 

21             THE COURT:  Sort of.  For cases that are binding on

 

22   me, I'm concerned about the Ninth Circuit.  For cases that are

 

23   just persuasive or not persuasive on their merits, -

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.

 

25             THE COURT:  - then a bankruptcy judge here versus a

 

                                                           53

 

 1   bankruptcy judge somewhere else is probably pretty equal.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Well, in any event, this is a

 

 3   bankruptcy Judge sitting in the Eastern District of California,

 

 4   and he -

 

 5             THE COURT:  Judge Klein, -

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  Right, Judge Klein.

 

 7             THE COURT:  - whom I know.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  And I know from seeing the decisions, I

 

 9   believe Judge Klein sits with some frequency in the BAP panels

 

10   as well.  I think I've seen decisions of his from the BAP

 

11   panels.  He addresses this very issue that I've just made, and

 

12   that is the standard for dismissal versus conversion, the best

 

13   interests of creditors and the estate.  And he has an

 

14   extraordinarily good analysis of confirming what we all know and

 

15   what the courts have said, in that the estate does not include

 

16   the debtor.

 

17             And this issue - in this analysis and his balancing of

 

18   interests, the debtor's interests are not part of this equation.

 

19   It's the estate and the creditors.

 

20             So I give that to you only because I think it perhaps

 

21   states the obvious and it states a proposition which is not

 

22   remarkable, but it is the only case within the bankruptcy courts

 

23   in California we're aware that does make that explicit finding.

 

24             With that, Your Honor, I'm going to turn to the

 

25   exhibit books.  And I've just - in the front of each exhibit

 

                                                           54

 

 1   book -

 

 2             THE COURT:  I'm sorry, what?

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  I say in the front of each volume there is

 

 4   an index -

 

 5             MS. KOBRIN:  He has - the Judge has a separate index.

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  You also have a separate index for - that

 

 7   has them all.

 

 8             THE COURT:  I'm not aware of that.

 

 9        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

10             THE COURT:  Where would that be, Ms. Kobrin?

 

11             MS. KOBRIN:  You -

 

12             THE COURT:  The separate one?

 

13             MS. KOBRIN:  No.  The separate one is the exhibit list

 

14   that we sent over that was in the format that the Court asked

 

15   for.

 

16             THE COURT:  You would have that, not me.

 

17             MS. KOBRIN:  There were two copies of that sent over.

 

18             THE COURT:  No, my Deputy keeps that so she -

 

19             MS. KOBRIN:  Yes.

 

20             THE COURT:  - can keep track of the exhibits.  I don't

 

21   have that.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  Do we have another copy to give to the

 

23   Judge?

 

24             THE COURT:  Oh, yes, I got it.

 

25             Ms. Kobrin, we found it.  It was in the pocket of the

 

                                                           55

 

 1   first exhibit book.

 

 2             MS. KOBRIN:  Okay.

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  And, Judge, let me - as we walk through

 

 4   this, let me just indicate what we've done here today and

 

 5   hopefully make your job easier.

 

 6             THE COURT:  Do you have the list, Mr. Zlotoff, so you

 

 7   can follow along?

 

 8             MR. ZLOTOFF:  The exhibit list?  I do.

 

 9             THE COURT:  Thank you.

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  Let me just explain what we've done so

 

11   we'll assist the Court in understanding this.

 

12             We have a description and an exhibit number of all of

 

13   the exhibits that are in the volumes.  I will as we go through

 

14   them to the extent that they are being offered only for one case

 

15   versus the other, I think most of them are an overlap, but I

 

16   will tell you that because Your Honor did ask to distinguish if

 

17   they relate just to the 13 as opposed -

 

18             THE COURT:  It all relates to the 13.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  These all relate - most of these relate to

 

20   the motion to dismiss as opposed -

 

21             THE COURT:  The 13?

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  I meant the confirmation of the 13.

 

23             What we've done in addition is as follows.  In front

 

24   of each exhibit that is being offered for only limited purposes

 

25   we have put in a page.  If you could turn, Your Honor, just as

 

                                                           56

 

 1   an example to Exhibit 20 you'll see that -

 

 2             THE COURT:  Do you want me to look at the exhibit or

 

 3   the list?

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  I want you to look at the tab in the book

 

 5   of Exhibit 20.

 

 6             THE COURT:  Not offered for the TOMA, which is the -

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  Truth of the matter asserted.

 

 8             THE COURT:  - truth of the matter asserted, offered -

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  So every -

 

10             THE COURT:  - only - offered only to show that video

 

11   excerpts were identified and shown to jury.

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  Every place - and this occurs

 

13   frequently.  Every place where there is any question about the

 

14   offering of the exhibit, whether it's for all purposes or just

 

15   for limited purposes, not for TOMA, whether it's offered as an

 

16   admission only by Mr. Henson, we've tried to do that so Your

 

17   Honor has - we don't have to walk through it orally, and Your

 

18   Honor has an understanding of the purposes for which it's

 

19   admitted.

 

20             This also - what we have not done redundantly is to

 

21   reiterate Your Honor's rulings in the in limine.  For example,

 

22   the - we don't have to say in here that the bankruptcy petition

 

23   of Mr. Henson and his schedules are offered not for TOMA, Your

 

24   Honor's already ruled on that.  But we have done this wherever

 

25   an exhibit requires an explanation.

 

                                                           57

 

 1             THE COURT:  But for the appellate court, if this goes

 

 2   to an appellate court, it's important to me to make a decent

 

 3   record.  So you should articulate when you introduce the exhibit

 

 4   what you're introducing it for.  Or if I've already ruled on it,

 

 5   we ought to identify those so they don't have to go back and try

 

 6   to figure out what you're talking about if this ends up.

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  This is part of the record on appeal.

 

 8   That's why we put in the exhibit books that we filed.

 

 9             THE COURT:  I don't know that your statement, typed

 

10   statement here is part of the record on appeal unless -

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  It is.  Because if I - if I stood up and

 

12   did it orally, if instead of doing it an efficient way, by

 

13   giving you the documents and offering them, in another way that

 

14   a case is tried, I would stand up and say, 'Your Honor, I offer

 

15   Exhibit 20.  I offer it just for the limited purpose of x.'  And

 

16   you would hear any objection, et cetera.  And you would say,

 

17   "Okay, received into evidence."

 

18             The statement on the transcript, which shows the

 

19   limitation of what the exhibit is offered, is clearly part of

 

20   the record on appeal.  What we're doing is instead of my

 

21   standing here and saying that to you, we've made it part of the

 

22   exhibits themselves, which we have filed.  So there will be a

 

23   record in the appeal court that - as to whether at they were

 

24   offered for.

 

25             And have you written that you're relying on a motion I

 

                                                           58

 

 1   made at a particular hearing on a particular date in these

 

 2   little typed statements?

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  No.

 

 4             THE COURT:  Well, how are they going to know that?

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  The - the decision you made is always part

 

 6   of the record.  You have a transcript.  You've made rulings on

 

 7   the in limine motions.

 

 8             THE COURT:  Yeah, but I don't think that that's

 

 9   sufficient.  If I - if you're relying on a ruling I made, I

 

10   would prefer to keep the record straight here.  And if you're

 

11   relying for a particular exhibit on a ruling I made, I want you

 

12   to do it orally since it's not written here.  Tell me when I

 

13   made the order and what - what the date was and on what motion.

 

14             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Okay.  Exhibit Number 1 - I'll now

 

15   start -

 

16             THE COURT:  Are we now going through the exhibits?  I

 

17   should start with Exhibit 1?

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah, I'm going to go through them now.

 

19             THE COURT:  Okay.  Well, you were taking me through

 

20   this exercise with -

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  Right.

 

22             THE COURT:  - the list, and we're finished with that.

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Exhibit 1 is a cease-and-desist letter

 

24   from Ms. Kobrin to Mr. Henson that is being offered to show the

 

25   - we have to think of a shorthand way for me to describe the -

 

                                                           59

 

 1   what I said earlier is the overarching enterprise, the entire

 

 2   malicious intent of Mr. Henson from 1996.  So I don't want to

 

 3   have to keep repeating -

 

 4             THE COURT:  I think the overarching -

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  Enterprise of - of -

 

 6             THE COURT:  - enterprise is a pretty good way to -

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  - malice against the church.

 

 8             THE COURT:  Pardon me?

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Of intention - of intention to harm the

 

10   Church of Scientology.

 

11             THE COURT:  That's fine.

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  So Exhibit 1 is under that

 

13   category.  Exhibit 2 is under that category.  Exhibit 3 is under

 

14   that category.

 

15             Exhibit 4 is under that category of bad faith.  This

 

16   is the - the - relates to the activities of Mr. Henson preparing

 

17   a bankruptcy petition in December to - of 1997 to - to derail a

 

18   trial that was then set at that time before Judge Whyte.

 

19             Number 5 is the minutes of the hearing on the

 

20   injunction in which Mr. Henson was enjoined from physical

 

21   assault against Reverend Barton.  Again just another piece of

 

22   the ongoing misconduct and greater overall scheme, if you will,

 

23   common denominator - denominator of Mr. Henson's conduct.

 

24             Number 6 is the motion to continue the trial dates.

 

25   Again I've indicated what that applies to.

 

                                                           60

 

 1             Number 7 is the transcript of the proceedings before

 

 2   Judge Whyte in February of 1998.

 

 3             Number 8 is the - Mr. Henson's - 7 and 8 both relate

 

 4   to Mr. Henson's attempt to delay the trial.  He made one

 

 5   application after another to delay the trial.  And when Judge

 

 6   Whyte would not hear it any longer, that was when he used the

 

 7   Bankruptcy Court to delay the trial.

 

 8             Exhibit 9 is the voluntary petition filed by Henson.

 

 9   The petition in bankruptcy, and that is one is pursuant to Your

 

10   Honor's ruling in the in limine motions on September 11th.  That

 

11   comes in only to show what he told the Court and doesn't come in

 

12   for TOMA.

 

13             Exhibit 10 is a posting by Mr. Henson of February 25.

 

14             Exhibit 11 is again bad faith, et cetera.  Exhibit 11,

 

15   the order on RTC's motion to modify the preliminary injunction

 

16   that had been entered against Mr. Henson.

 

17             And the reason for that is because even after, as

 

18   shown in the exhibit - I'm not testifying to this - as shown in

 

19   the exhibit, the reason this was necessitated was because Mr.

 

20   Henson in Exhibit 10 threatened to commit contempt, threatened

 

21   to violate Judge Whyte's preliminary injunction.  We were

 

22   required to get another order from Judge Whyte on that.  And

 

23   that's Exhibit 11.

 

24             Exhibit 12 is the - is the ex-parte application for

 

25   additional relief against Mr. Henson.  This is yet an additional

 

                                                           61

 

 1   threat to violate - to commit contempt.

 

 2             Exhibit 13 is the order originally entered in this

 

 3   Court compelling Mr. Henson to attend a 2004 exam.  And as to

 

 4   that, by the way, the same issue of delay, delay that Mr. Henson

 

 5   exhibited in connection with the copyright trial before Judge

 

 6   Whyte, was also in ready attendance here before Your Honor.

 

 7             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Can I - can I butt in here right now?

 

 8   Because I don't - it sounds like we're halfway dealing with

 

 9   exhibits and halfway dealing with argument.  And so I'm a little

 

10   confused as to whether I'm supposed to be saying - I don't know

 

11   what we're doing, to be honest with you.  Are we - are we

 

12   going -

 

13             THE COURT:  Well, he's just saying this exhibit is

 

14   introduced on this issue and this exhibit is introduced on that

 

15   issue.  And he's trying to say what he thinks each exhibit shows

 

16   to identify the issue.

 

17             Now there is a little argument in it, but it also

 

18   clarifies which issue the exhibit goes to.

 

19             MR. ZLOTOFF:  And then when he gets to the end of 280,

 

20   then I go back over from 1 and I say -

 

21             THE COURT:  If you want to do that as part of your

 

22   argument - your closing argument, I have no objection to your

 

23   doing that.

 

24             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Okay.

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Number 14, I believe then, is the - yet a

 

                                                           62

 

 1   further attempt to delay the proceedings from the Bankruptcy

 

 2   Court.

 

 3             THE COURT:  Is there a 15?

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  Number 15 is omitted.  Your Honor, there

 

 5   are some - and, if you can believe it, we actually trimmed this

 

 6   back from our original exhibit list.

 

 7             THE COURT:  Okay.  Just tell me when it's - again,

 

 8   it's for the purpose of the record.  So if you go - if you go

 

 9   from 14 to 16, you should just tell me or give me a list - maybe

 

10   on the exhibit list it's clear that they're omitted.

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  Yes.

 

12             THE COURT:  That's fine.  That's enough.

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  You should have - you should not have a 15

 

14   on your exhibit list.

 

15             THE COURT:  No, I don't.  Okay.  That's fine.

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Exhibit 15, the bankruptcy schedules filed

 

17   by Mr. Henson.  This is per with the limitation of your in

 

18   limine ruling on this 11th of September.

 

19             Exhibit 17 is the same thing, on the in limine.

 

20             Exhibit 18, we've given you the special verdict form

 

21   from the trial.  Again the purpose is to show that the jury

 

22   found willful infringement.  And that - and the totality of the

 

23   circumstances we believe is a factor under 1307, and bad faith.

 

24             Number 20 is a transcript of certain of the

 

25   proceedings at trial.  20 and 21.  These constitute admissions

 

                                                           63

 

 1   by Mr. Henson of things like his purpose, his malicious purpose

 

 2   in infringing.  He didn't infringe because he wanted to make

 

 3   money.  He didn't infringe because -

 

 4             THE COURT:  That's a little much, Mr. Rosen.  It's his

 

 5   purpose in infringing.

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah, okay.

 

 7             THE COURT:  You don't need to go into an argument on

 

 8   each one -

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  I'm sorry.  And I apologize.  I'm

 

10   trying to help Your Honor as much as I can so you understand

 

11   what the exhibits refer to.

 

12             21 includes the statement from - by Mr. Henson from

 

13   the witness stand in response to his own attorney's question,

 

14   "Now that this has happened, would you do it again, would you

 

15   infringe again?"

 

16             And his answer was, "Well, I wouldn't do it out in the

 

17   open" and, you know, kind of wear a mask the next time I stick

 

18   up the 7-Eleven is the way we - has kind of characterized it.

 

19   And -

 

20             THE COURT:  Come on.  Come on.  This is - I don't want

 

21   any of this, -

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah, I understand.

 

23             THE COURT:  - Mr. Rosen.  None.

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

25             THE COURT:  Okay.  So -

 

                                                           64

 

 1             MR. ROSEN:  Got you.

 

 2             THE COURT:  - hold yourself in.

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  I will try.  It's -

 

 4             THE COURT:  And just -

 

 5             MR. ROSEN:  - just I get so - I get -

 

 6             THE COURT:  I'm sure you get very emotional, Mr.

 

 7   Rosen, but be like a lawyer and hold yourself in and just tell

 

 8   me the issue it goes to.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

10             THE COURT:  Don't describe the exhibit.

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  Exhibit 22 is a judgment - first

 

12   judgment of contempt against Mr. Henson.  And that goes to his

 

13   ongoing unitary plan of injuring - of attacking Scientology.

 

14             20- -

 

15             THE COURT:  Okay.  Let's just - let's call that

 

16   "unitary plan."

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  That's what I asked you before.

 

18             THE COURT:  No.  Let's give it one word.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  Come up with a short -

 

20             THE COURT:  Right.  Let's give it one word.

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  "Unitary plan."

 

22             THE COURT:  Okay, fine.

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Two words.  Okay, that's fine.

 

24             25 is the - self-explanatory.  It's the Court of

 

25   Appeals affirmance.

 

                                                           65

 

 1             27, these are the amendments to the schedules in

 

 2   bankruptcy.  Again this is important in the in limine.  Not

 

 3   offered for TOMA.  Just offered to show this is what he told the

 

 4   Court.

 

 5             28 is the same thing.  That's his Chapter 13 plan.

 

 6   The same limitation.

 

 7             29 is correspondence to Mr. Zlotoff.  Let me just look

 

 8   at this one for a moment, make sure I get this right.

 

 9             This relates to our demands for discovery and the fact

 

10   that discovery was not forthcoming from Mr. Henson.  The - the

 

11   letters are being offered for the purpose - and there's a whole

 

12   series of them - for the purpose of demonstrating that we had -

 

13   we had made demands, we had made remainders.

 

14             THE COURT:  So they're offered for the truth?  That's

 

15   problematic -

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  Offered for the truth that we had made -

 

17   no.  They're offered for the statement that here is our

 

18   demanding that you produce a certain document.  The truth is -

 

19   and we asked for it before and you haven't given it to us.

 

20             THE COURT:  But that's offering this hearsay document

 

21   for the truth.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  It's not hearsay.

 

23             THE COURT:  Why isn't it hearsay?

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  Ms. Seid is available to testify.

 

25             THE COURT:  So it's an offer of proof?

 

                                                           66

 

 1             MR. ROSEN:  Well, it's also part of the record on -

 

 2             THE COURT:  Either she testifies or it's hearsay.  Why

 

 3   not?

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  I - you know something, on

 

 5   reflection I think Your Honor is right.  I'll offer it not for

 

 6   truth, but to show that we made demands for discovery.

 

 7             THE COURT:  Okay.  Now which ones are these?

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  There were going to be several of them.

 

 9   The first one we came to was number 29.

 

10             THE COURT:  Okay.  Mr. Zlotoff, if you have agreed to

 

11   all of these, then I'm not going to say anything, so -

 

12             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I understand.

 

13             THE COURT:  I - I - hearsay can be admissible if

 

14   there's no objection.

 

15             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I understand.

 

16             THE COURT:  So if you don't object, I'll -

 

17             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I'm biding my time because - that's why

 

18   I butted in earlier, so I'm going to let -

 

19             THE COURT:  Why are you biding your time?  You have to

 

20   make objections to any exhibits that you think are

 

21   objectionable.  You can make your comments later, but then they

 

22   either come in or they don't come in.

 

23             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I understand.  He hasn't offered

 

24   anything into evidence yet -

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  I'm going to offer them all when I'm done

 

                                                           67

 

 1   with them, so you can hear -

 

 2             THE COURT:  Oh, I see.  I misunderstood.

 

 3             MR. ROSEN:  - the - the objections all at once.  I

 

 4   think it makes for a more orderly presentation to the Court.

 

 5             THE COURT:  I see.  I understand now.  That's the

 

 6   context in which this is -

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  30 -

 

 8             THE COURT:  - all occurring.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  30 and 31 are - relate to the

 

10   discovery misconduct of Mr. Henson.

 

11             THE COURT:  And not to the truth.  30 and 31 said not

 

12   offered for TOMA.

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  Right.

 

14             32 is a transcript of the proceedings before the

 

15   Court, again to show that the admissions, that the discovery has

 

16   not been made, as well as Your Honor's rulings.

 

17             33 is an order of the Court compelling discovery.

 

18             34 is another order of the Court.

 

19             35 is a response by Mr. Henson to an - to the Court's

 

20   order on discovery, being offered to show again that - not for

 

21   the truth, but to show that he hasn't produced, hasn't complied

 

22   with the order, didn't produce documents.

 

23             36, the jury instruction in the copyright infringement

 

24   case.  Before we had the jury verdict.  This is the jury

 

25   instruction.  Just so Your Honor understands, what the jury had

 

                                                           68

 

 1   to find under the law, to find willful infringement.

 

 2             37, this is a statement not being offered for the

 

 3   truth again, but a statement by the debtor's wife respecting

 

 4   documents that she had produced.  Again more discovery

 

 5   obstruction.

 

 6             39 is a letter, not offered for the truth, to

 

 7   demonstrate that further discovery demands - I should just

 

 8   shortcut this and say discovery obstruction, or whatever,

 

 9   because a lot of these refer to the same thing.  That's true

 

10   with respect to 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 46, 47, 48, 53, 54, 55, 56,

 

11   57, 58, 59.

 

12             60 is the transcript of the proceeding that occurred

 

13   before Your Honor on September 1, 1999.

 

14             61 is an order on a motion to compel, an order of the

 

15   Court.

 

16             62, again discovery.  65, discovery.  65, discovery.

 

17   66, discovery.  67, response to an order.  Again it's a

 

18   discovery issue.

 

19             68, this is a separate category.  68 and 69, these are

 

20   applications by the debtor and his wife to the IRS for

 

21   extensions of time beyond the automatic extension to August for

 

22   additional extensions of time to file their tax returns on the

 

23   grounds that they don't want Scientology to find out about their

 

24   expenses and what's in their tax returns.

 

25             I would respectfully submit to you that the other

 

                                                           69

 

 1   thing they didn't want the Scientology or the Court to find out

 

 2   about in those tax returns -

 

 3             THE COURT:  This is going into argument or this is in

 

 4   the exhibit?  You are describing exhibits and telling me what

 

 5   category they go into, -

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

 7             THE COURT:  - not giving me argument.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  Okay, fine.  I thought I was giving you

 

 9   argument as part of my opening statement, but -

 

10             THE COURT:  Yes, and I took that as opening statement.

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  This is part of it.  This is my opening

 

12   statement.

 

13             THE COURT:  No - well, no, I don't think so.  This is

 

14   describing the exhibits to be admitted.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

16             THE COURT:  You - you - if you want to do an opening

 

17   statement and talk more about the opening statement, that's

 

18   fine.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

20             THE COURT:  But that would be improper use of an

 

21   opening statement.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  That takes us through 69 and that

 

23   brings us to Volume II.  The first exhibit in Volume II is 76.

 

24   70- - excuse me - 72.  I apologize.

 

25             72 is discovery.  73 is discovery.  75, 76, 77, -

 

                                                           70

 

 1             THE COURT:  I'm sorry.  Yeah, I'm with you now.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  I should say that the - some of

 

 3   these may also contain admissions by Mr. Henson.  Like, for

 

 4   example, his letter, 76 is a letter to Mr. Hogan, but - you

 

 5   know, which obviously comes in as an admission.

 

 6             By saying it's discovery I don't mean to exclude an

 

 7   admission by Mr. Henson that may be in addition to it.  Any

 

 8   doc- -

 

 9             THE COURT:  Confused -

 

10             MR. ROSEN:  Huh?

 

11             THE COURT:  How am I supposed to deal with this?  If

 

12   you're - if you have something here that says not offered for

 

13   TOMA, and you intended as an admission, then put that in your

 

14   closing argument, so that - unless it says for -

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  It says it in front of the exhibit.

 

16             THE COURT:  For 76?

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.

 

18             THE COURT:  I'm sorry.  I didn't see that.  Are we

 

19   talking about -

 

20             MR. ROSEN:  76.

 

21             THE COURT:  Where it says, "Offered only to show

 

22   Henson's intentional underemployment."

 

23             MR. ROSEN:  Right.

 

24             THE COURT:  Okay.  It doesn't say "admission."  I

 

25   understand what you're saying at this point regarding this

 

                                                           71

 

 1   exhibit.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Well, anything - by definition under 801

 

 3   anything Mr. Henson says is an admission.

 

 4             Okay.  78, the transcript of the proceedings before

 

 5   this Court.

 

 6             80, 81, 82, 83 are all Henson postings which are

 

 7   offered to show misconduct, bad faith, destruction of documents.

 

 8   They're all marked on here in the front of each one as to the

 

 9   particular purpose.  None of them are offered for TOMA.  They're

 

10   offered to show Mr. Henson's admissions with respect to certain

 

11   limited areas, as I've just indicated.

 

12             84 is Mr. Henson's r‚sum‚.  This I think really

 

13   relates to the motion to confirm the plan, not to the bad faith;

 

14   because this goes to the issue of whether - primarily, whether

 

15   he was underemployed, what he was - the plan represents what he

 

16   was capable of earning.

 

17             86 is a declaration by Mr. Henson offered only to show

 

18   - this is only discovery.

 

19             87 is the - Mr. Henson's - is the log of Mr. Henson's

 

20   pickets of the church, which again goes to the fact that he's

 

21   spending all this time picketing.  I think it probably goes more

 

22   to the motion to confirm the 13 plan, but it could have some

 

23   significance on the bad faith as well.  Probably does, actually.

 

24             Okay.  89.  89 - 89 relates to the artwork that I told

 

25   you about and the amount that they - Mr. Henson paid for framing

 

                                                           72

 

 1   of the - of the lithographs.  It's about $1600 I think.  This is

 

 2   separate and apart from the value of the documents themselves -

 

 3   excuse me - the value - value of the artwork itself, which is a

 

 4   separate exhibit.

 

 5             90 and 91 are the two appraisals that Your Honor's

 

 6   already aware of.  They've been stipulated in.  The 410,- as of

 

 7   the date of the petition and the 608,- as of July of 2000, of

 

 8   the Henson home.

 

 9             92 is Mr. Henson's amended Chapter 13 plan.  Again

 

10   this is per your - part of your in limine ruling of September

 

11   11th, being offered not for TOMA.

 

12             93, posting by Mr. Henson.  Offered to show

 

13   misconduct.  These are - 94 goes as well on the misconduct.

 

14             95 is document production by Henson.  This goes to

 

15   discovery misconduct.

 

16             96 - 96, I'm sorry, is a posting by Mr. Henson in

 

17   March of 1998.  And this is an admission where he has picketing

 

18   activities.

 

19             97, a transcript of proceedings before this Court.

 

20             98 is a - Mr. Henson's telephone statement - telephone

 

21   bill of September 19th, 1999.  This is a category we haven't

 

22   spoken about before, and I should address this.

 

23             Mr. Henson had in his schedule or in his plan a

 

24   certain allocation of projected expenses for telephone charges.

 

25   This is $534 for one month, by an order of magnitude greater

 

                                                           73

 

 1   than what he had projected.  It shows, A, that the - that the

 

 2   expenses that were listed in the plan are - were way off.

 

 3             It also goes to an issue of - I think of bad faith and

 

 4   under Chapter 13 confirmation as follows.  The bulk of this

 

 5   bill, and you'll see it from - later on, when we get to the

 

 6   depositions.  The bulk of this is long-distance telephone calls

 

 7   having nothing to do with his business.

 

 8             If he wants to go to Florida and picket a Church of

 

 9   Scientology, if he wants to go to Los Angeles and do that, and

 

10   if he wants to make telephone calls in connection -

 

11             THE COURT:  This is argument.

 

12             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Your Honor, you know, -

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  It's argument, okay.

 

14             THE COURT:  I don't want any argument.

 

15             MR. ZLOTOFF:  You know, from a little - from a little

 

16   Pacific Telephone bill, it's amazing what he can get out of it.

 

17   I - I don't see any of that on there.

 

18             THE COURT:  Right.  It's - I'm going to - look, I want

 

19   to tell you, Mr. Rosen.  If you do it more, I'm going to

 

20   sanction you.  I want you not to make argument during this

 

21   portion of the evidence presentation.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  But this is part of my opening statement.

 

23             THE COURT:  I told you it is inappropriate and I don't

 

24   want you to do it.

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

                                                           74

 

 1             THE COURT:  Your opening statement ended.  And if you

 

 2   want - if you want to leave and take a five-minute break, we'll

 

 3   take a five-minute break.  This is presentation of evidence.  If

 

 4   you want to make an opening statement, then it's not going to -

 

 5   it's not going to be describing each of the exhibits and then

 

 6   turn around and say, "I want to admit them."  That's - we're

 

 7   separating it out.

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  What was the next one?  We're up to 98.

 

 9             99 is an order of Judge Whyte in the copyright case.

 

10             100 is an order of the Ninth Circuit.

 

11             104 is the deed of trust or mortgage on the Henson

 

12   property.

 

13             107 is a posting from Mr. Henson.  It's offered simply

 

14   to show that he threatened to violate the injunction.

 

15             109, an order of Judge Whyte, which is

 

16   self-explanatory from the order.

 

17             110, an order from Judge Whyte granting attorney's

 

18   fees in connection with the - the copyright case, I believe.

 

19   Let me just check that to make sure.  Yes, these are the

 

20   attorney's fees granted in the copyright case.

 

21             THE COURT:  Excuse me, Mr. Rosen.  I just realized

 

22   something.  To make perfectly clear that opening statements are

 

23   over, I could have allowed you to make your opening statement

 

24   right after his opening statement, but we didn't do that.  So

 

25   there's this - that's the way it's proceeded.

 

                                                           75

 

 1             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I was aware of that.

 

 2             THE COURT:  Yeah, well, you didn't say anything.

 

 3             MR. ZLOTOFF:  I'm content to postpone my opening

 

 4   statement till - till later.  At this point I don't think it

 

 5   would serve any purpose for me to -

 

 6             THE COURT:  Okay.

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  111 are the findings and conclusions of

 

 8   Judge Whyte in the contempt proceeding.

 

 9             112 and 113 are postings.  Unitary plan, I think is

 

10   the buzzword.

 

11             114 is an order of Judge Ware, I believe it is,

 

12   dismissing the case against the - the IRS.  I think it's Judge

 

13   Ware.  Yeah.

 

14             Okay.  115 -

 

15             THE COURT:  It's -

 

16             MR. ROSEN:  - is a decision of the Ninth Circuit.

 

17             THE COURT:  Wait a second.  1- -

 

18             MR. ROSEN:  115.

 

19             THE COURT:  114 is granting the motion of the IRS,

 

20   right?

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  It's Judge Ware's decision

 

22   dismissing Henson's suit against the IRS.

 

23             THE COURT:  Yes, okay.  Thank you.

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  And the order itself - if Your Honor's not

 

25   aware of it, the order itself tells you what the relevance is.

 

                                                           76

 

 1   It's, quote, unitary plan.

 

 2             115 is the Ninth Circuit order of affirmance in the

 

 3   copyright case, one of them.

 

 4             116 is a posting by Mr. Henson.  Unitary plan.

 

 5             121 is a posting - give me a second, Your Honor,

 

 6   please.

 

 7        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

 8             MR. ROSEN:  I have to explain this.  121 is the

 

 9   document which is referred to on the tape we're going to show of

 

10   the deposition.  It's identified in the videotape of the

 

11   deposition that Mr. Henson is authenticating and reading from in

 

12   it.  So since the document's not on camera, this is the one that

 

13   - this is the document that goes with it.

 

14             THE COURT:  121 or 122?

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  121.

 

16             THE COURT:  Thank you.

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  122 is a proceeding before this Court of

 

18   September 13th, 2000 - a transcript, rather.

 

19             124 is the posting by Mr. - is a posting by Mr.

 

20   Henson.  Unitary plan.

 

21             125 - I'm not sure that we really have to make this an

 

22   exhibit, but for the convenience of the Court we did.  We had

 

23   separately submitted the model plans of other districts on the

 

24   issue of valuation date.  And we made them part of the record

 

25   here in the exhibit.  I think that they're a matter of public

 

                                                           77

 

 1   record, anyway, but this was just for convenience to make them

 

 2   an exhibit, to collect them in one place.

 

 3             126, let me just - this is the - this goes with it.

 

 4   This is the email showing the - that relates to these plans.

 

 5             THE COURT:  I didn't hear what you said.  What did you

 

 6   just -

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  Huh?

 

 8             THE COURT:  I missed what you said.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  126 is the - is the email from EZ Filing

 

10   that relates to these plans.

 

11             THE COURT:  Okay.

 

12             MR. ROSEN:  So Exhibit 125, -

 

13             THE COURT:  Thank you.

 

14             MR. ROSEN:  - the model plans of other districts.

 

15             127 is the objection we filed originally, preliminary

 

16   objection to confirmation back in '98.

 

17             128 is an order of this Court which speaks for itself.

 

18             129 is the docket sheet from the criminal proceeding.

 

19   People of the State of California against Keith Henson.  That is

 

20   the court docket sheet.

 

21             The next one - that's unitary plan, to use the

 

22   shorthand.

 

23             133 -

 

24             THE COURT:  You're in another volume, and I need a

 

25   minute.

 

                                                           78

 

 1             MR. ROSEN:  Say again?

 

 2             THE COURT:  You're in another volume.  I need a

 

 3   minute.

 

 4             MR. ROSEN:  Yup, we're up to Volume III.  Correct.

 

 5             THE COURT:  I'm ready.

 

 6        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  Oh, I'm sorry.  I am corrected in

 

 8   something.  The Exhibit 110 was supposed to be removed from

 

 9   this, so I withdraw the exhibit.  It was the original order by

 

10   Judge Whyte on the fees, which was then reversed and substituted

 

11   with another one.  So -

 

12        (The Court confers with the Clerk.)

 

13             MR. ROSEN:  - I misspoke and I - it should have been -

 

14   it should not have been included in the exhibits, Your Honor.  I

 

15   apologize.

 

16             THE COURT:  110 is withdrawn.

 

17             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  133 and 134, these go together.

 

18   133 is a posting by somebody, a stranger.  It's only there to

 

19   show that it was posted, not for TOMA, because 134 is a response

 

20   to it.  So if I give you 134 without 133, it makes no sense.

 

21             135, posting by Henson.  Again general category of

 

22   unitary plan.

 

23             140, all the way down from 140 through 159, that's all

 

24   the same category of Mr. Henson's misconduct, unitary plan.

 

25             160, this is the appraisal of the etching for

 

                                                           79

 

 1   insurance that Your Honor asked me about before, how much was

 

 2   it.  And this is 1985.  This is for insurance purposes.

 

 3             164, '65, '66, '67, more postings by Henson.  Unitary

 

 4   plan, misconduct, attacking the Scientology, et cetera.

 

 5             168 is under the same category.  It's an order of the

 

 6   Court in the copyright case on respecting a protective order on

 

 7   a deposition.

 

 8             171 is the errata sheet that Mr. Henson purported to

 

 9   make with respect to the transcript of this February 18th 2004

 

10   examination.  Let me just check that a second, if I could.

 

11             This is not offered for the truth nor is it offered

 

12   for an admission.  It's offered solely for the purpose of

 

13   showing under the category of bad faith that Mr. Henson

 

14   attempted to change his testimony from yes to no, or whatever it

 

15   may be.

 

16             173 is the final judgment in the copyright case.

 

17             174 is Mr. Henson's application -

 

18             THE COURT:  Wait.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  I'm sorry?

 

20             THE COURT:  Okay.  That's fine.  Go ahead.

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  '73 is the final -

 

22             THE COURT:  I was - I was missing something for a

 

23   moment.  I thought I was missing an exhibit, but I wasn't.

 

24             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  '73 - 173 is the final judgment in

 

25   the copyright case.

 

                                                           80

 

 1             174 is Mr. Henson's application to proceed informa

 

 2   pauperis.  That has an admission in it as to his income.  And I

 

 3   believe - well, I'm just going to say that.  I - I won't argue

 

 4   from it.

 

 5             177 is - this is the transfer of the Whole Life policy

 

 6   that Mr. Henson owned.  The one that we talked about before that

 

 7   has a cash surrender value.

 

 8             178 relates to the same thing.  It's his ability -

 

 9   shows his ability to get the policy back after signing it for

 

10   the payment of $25.

 

11             179 is a declaration of Mr. Henson in connection with

 

12   the dispute over the deposition of his daughter.  It is only

 

13   offered to show - not for TOMA.  It's only offered to show the

 

14   representations Mr. Henson made in that respecting his expenses

 

15   as compared to those that are in his - in his bankruptcy filings

 

16   with this Court.

 

17             180 is a history of the loan statement from the

 

18   mortgagee, World Savings for 1998, which shows, again as I

 

19   mentioned earlier in my opening, some amount of the original

 

20   mortgage as paid down as of the date of the petition.

 

21             182 is a schedule of personal property endorsement on

 

22   the home owner's policy.  And this is the one I believe I

 

23   referred to earlier that has the identification of the artwork

 

24   in it.

 

25             183 is the charging documentation in the criminal

 

                                                           81

 

 1   proceeding against Mr. Henson.

 

 2             184 is a response - okay.  Well, it's a response to

 

 3   summary judgment - a summary judgment motion by RTC in the

 

 4   copyright case.  It's being offered to show - well, excuse me -

 

 5   unitary plan.

 

 6             185 is - this is an exhibit which we've just added.

 

 7   We added a couple of exhibits yesterday and gave Mr. Zlotoff not

 

 8   only the copies but we gave them the letter identifying what

 

 9   they were.  You have two stipulated appraisals, for the petition

 

10   date and June of 2000.  This is the appraisal - as of June of

 

11   2000 for the house.

 

12             This is a current appraisal which was attached to our

 

13   opposition papers on the motion to sell the house.  We think it

 

14   - to the extent it's important or may be relevant to determine

 

15   what it is today.  Like, for example, for conversion purposes,

 

16   what the value of the house is today, we would ask that this be

 

17   included.  Obviously we couldn't include it before.  It just -

 

18   it just came up.  So I wanted to indicate to Your Honor that

 

19   as -

 

20             THE COURT:  Now we're getting about the admissibility

 

21   of this.  And Mr. Zlotoff hasn't told us what his position is.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  I understand.  And I'm telling - I -

 

23             MR. ZLOTOFF:  Well, I'll tell you - I'll tell you

 

24   right now I object because it's hearsay.

 

25             THE COURT:  Okay, that's fine.

 

                                                           82

 

 1             MR. ZLOTOFF:  It's as simple as that.

 

 2             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.

 

 3             THE COURT:  But I don't need to deal with that now.

 

 4             MR. ZLOTOFF:  No.

 

 5             THE COURT:  I assume Mr. Zlotoff is going to review

 

 6   the exhibit.

 

 7             MR. ROSEN:  I - I was d- -

 

 8             THE COURT:  I don't want to do them piecemeal.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  I was doing it for another reason.  I

 

10   wanted to tell you what we had told Mr. Zlotoff in a letter

 

11   yesterday.  I didn't want you to get the impression that we had

 

12   done something improper, because I'm identifying for you

 

13   exhibits that were not on our original exhibit list, -

 

14             THE COURT:  That's perfectly appropriate.

 

15             MR. ROSEN:  - but which have come up since then and

 

16   we've included.

 

17             THE COURT:  It's perfectly appropriate to call them to

 

18   my attention.

 

19             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  186, portions of the transcript of

 

20   July 10th.  That's another one that comes under that same

 

21   category, as is 187, 188, and 189.  These all deal with the

 

22   sale-of-the-house issue and the motions that were before you.

 

23   189 - I'm sorry.  That should have been to 188.

 

24             189 is a posting which relates to money being received

 

25   by Mr. Henson from some contributors.

 

                                                           83

 

 1             191, these are the documents respecting the insurance

 

 2   policy that we spoke about earlier, the Whole Life policy.  And

 

 3   it shows the - this is a document that answers Your Honor's

 

 4   question as to what the cash surrender value was at the time of

 

 5   the petition.

 

 6             194 is a proof of claim we filed originally.

 

 7             195, I've indicated that's your earlier - that's the

 

 8   amended proof of claim which was both pre- and postpetition

 

 9   debts.

 

10             196 is Your Honor's earlier order.  That was referred

 

11   to before granting the trustee's motion to dismiss.

 

12             197 is an order - is the order of actual dismissal, I

 

13   guess, from Your Honor.

 

14             198 is the trustee's final report, and that was part

 

15   of that earlier proceeding that was terminated.

 

16             199 is the - the one Your Honor referred to earlier, I

 

17   guess, final decree of dismissal of May of 1998.

 

18             2000 is the closing - Exhibit 200, rather, is a

 

19   closing bankruptcy report on file in this Court.

 

20             2001 is a transcript of proceeding of July 13th -

 

21             THE COURT:  Not 2001.

 

22             MR. ROSEN:  201.  I'm getting bleary-eyed from reading

 

23   these.  2- - Exhibit 201 is a transcript of the proceedings of

 

24   July 13th.  That, I believe, is the one we were referring to

 

25   earlier when Your Honor - yeah.  That's the transcript that

 

                                                           84

 

 1   we're referring to earlier that Your Honor explained what you

 

 2   were doing in issuing the order to reinstate the bankruptcy.

 

 3             2002 is Your Honor's order on that.

 

 4             2003, trustee's objection - excuse me.  Did I say

 

 5   "2003"?  203.  I'm sorry, Judge.  I'm getting a little punch

 

 6   drunk on these.

 

 7             204 is the - I think that's a redundancy.  It looks to

 

 8   be the same -

 

 9             THE COURT:  Wait a second.  I don't have a 204.

 

10        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

11             MR. ROSEN:  Good.  You shouldn't have it.  It's

 

12   redundant of 194.

 

13             205, a transcript of the proceedings before this Court

 

14   on November 12th, '88 [sic].  I just want to check something on

 

15   that, Your Honor.  Yeah, this goes - this is related to

 

16   discovery misconduct.

 

17             THE COURT:  Really on the official - we need to mark

 

18   that there is no 204.

 

19             THE CLERK:  I'll fix that.

 

20             THE COURT:  Go ahead.

 

21             MR. ROSEN:  206 is the trustee's objection to the -

 

22   second objection, I think, to the confirm plan filed by the - by

 

23   the debtor.

 

24             207, a transcript of the proceedings before this Court

 

25   of July 6th.

 

                                                           85

 

 1             And I should say, Your Honor, if I may just

 

 2   parenthetically add something, as you can see, we have put in by

 

 3   way of exhibits materials that are always before the Court.

 

 4   It's the Court's own orders, it's the transcripts, et cetera.

 

 5   We've done it solely to make it convenient so Your Honor doesn't

 

 6   have to go through the files and say, "Where is that transcript

 

 7   from this date."

 

 8             THE COURT:  I appreciate that.  That's helpful.

 

 9             MR. ROSEN:  Okay.  But I should also say that within

 

10   the context of transcripts, obviously they're not being offered

 

11   for the truth of - if - if one of our side or Mr. Zlotoff makes

 

12   a representation of fact that's not being offered.  They're

 

13   being offered to show either admissions or to show Your Honor's

 

14   rulings or Your Honor's comments.  And then of course all the

 

15   transcripts of the court hearings.  209 - or admissions by Mr.

 

16   Henson, I guess.

 

17             209 is the - is Your Honor's order lifting the

 

18   automatic stay to allow the copyright trial to go forward.  210

 

19   relates to that same thing.

 

20             And 211 is Mr. Henson's notice of voluntary withdrawal

 

21   of the petition in March of 1998.

 

22             We go to Volume IV.  Volume IV -

 

23             THE COURT:  Can you help him with that mic, so - you

 

24   keep hitting into it.

 

25             MR. ROSEN:  Yeah.  We go to Volume IV.  Volume IV

 

                                                           86

 

 1   contains three videotapes.  We're going to - that we've

 

 2   discussed earlier today.  We're going to show one of them.

 

 3   We're only going to offer one of them.  We're going to offer 213

 

 4   - is that the right one?

 

 5        (Creditor's counsel confer off record.)

 

 6             MR. ROSEN:  To make it easy, and we will withdraw 212

 

 7   and 214 as proposed exhibits.  And we will show that immediately

 

 8   after we move these in with Your Honor's permission.  This

 

 9   videotape runs 15 and a half minutes.

 

10             Exhibit 215 and 216, these are postings by Mr. Henson.

 

11   Unitary plan, discovery obstruction.