Keith Henson Hemet trial transcript, pages 301-350

Go to previous part of transcript
Go to next part of transcript
Back to index

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, may I just respond briefly? I promise I won't take up -- I think what Counsel just read, to a lay jury, your Honor, it says "unequivocal, unconditional, immediate and specific." That conveys that the example that I gave that, you know, you, "I'm going to kill you," and that's the only thing that qualifies to anybody, you know. We're all lawyers and it's been taken up to the District Court of Appeal, your Honor. And we're still having trouble defining what 422 is. And the C.A.L.J.I.C. is behind the times, your Honor. And In Re Ricky T., Lopez, Mendoza demonstrate that it does not have to be immediate. It can be in the future. It does not have to be so unequivocal. There can be some ambiguity to it that's up for the jury. And that's what these decisions indicate, your Honor. That's the current state of the law, and Counsel cannot disagree with that. I have shown these cases to Mr. Harr. His only response is that these -

THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. Mr. Harr has given a response. Are you -- are you now characterizing what he said?

MR. SCHWARZ: No, your Honor. Withdraw my comments. Thank you. Submit.

THE COURT: Now, what about this proposed instruction on the First Amendment? I thought you gentlemen were going to stipulate to the defendant's right to picket.

MR. HARR: We did, your Honor.

MR. SCHWARZ: We did, your Honor. But the People felt that there was a necessity to include the jury instruction.

THE COURT: Counsel, the example of crying fire in a crowded theater doesn't go back to 1995. It goes back to 1926.

MR. SCHWARZ: Oliver Wendell Holmes, your Honor.

THE COURT: No, it was Justice Brandeis.

MR. SCHWARZ: Oh, my apologies, your Honor. I thought it was Oliver Wendell Holmes.

THE COURT: It was Justice Brandeis. So I think there's no reason to give that instruction. Let me think about this and I'll let you know. I mean, I'll either give it or I won't give it. Okay?

MR. HARR: Yes, your Honor.

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, the problem is that the People will be relying on that in closing arguments, your Honor.

THE COURT: No, you won't, Counsel. I don't permit instruction. I permit argument. There will be no preinstruction to the jury. You may characterize something. But you may not recite it.

MR. SCHWARZ: I wasn't going to recite it, your Honor, but I have to refer to the elements, your Honor. If the elements don't reflect the way the current state -

THE COURT: You can argue whatever you want, Counsel.



MR. SCHWARZ: That's fine.

THE COURT: Got it?

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, there are a few other matters that the People would like to take up.


MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, it's come to the attention of the People and we've been informed that what's happening out in the hall is this: Is that during the breaks, your Honor, there has been -- and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but there are some interested parties for and against this case, and during the sessions, during the breaks loud discussions about what's going on in the case are happening in front of the jurors, your Honor. I would ask that the Court instruct those in the audience not to talk openly about the case while the court is in session. I think that's fair to both parties, your Honor. And because we're in close quarters, there is no places for the jury to go, we all have to sit next to them. If we're talking about the case it unfairly prejudices the jury one way or another. Furthermore, your Honor, I just wanted to bring it to the Court's attention that over the weekend, your Honor, one of the listed witnesses by the defendant went out picketing, and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, in front of Golden Era over the weekend, your Honor. But precisely what happened in the in limine motions, with regard to the three deaths the Court specifically excluded, that person went out there and did the exact same thing. I have actually a photograph that was provided to me if the Court would like to see it.

THE COURT: I don't understand what you're asking - what -

MR. SCHWARZ: I just want to inform the Court, your Honor, that it appears that certain witnesses have tried to prejudice this case outside the presence -- outside the presence of the Court itself, and the People felt it necessary to bring it to the Court's attention. If the Court just takes note of it, I just want my comments recorded for the record.

THE COURT: Well, I understand that. That may be what you want. But let me explain something to you, Counsel. It happens all the time. It happens when Counsel speaks to a reporter during the course of the case. It happens when somebody confronts somebody else. As I indicated earlier, this Court will not issue a prior restraint. The Court has already ordered that the case not be discussed. If you are saying that someone is in contempt of this Court's order, the Court will look at that. But with respect to whether it influences a case or not, the only thing the Court will do is to tell the jury to ignore it. And if those people -- and I'll do this in front of everybody, and I will instruct that if those people who are talking about the case think that they're doing themselves a favor, it may backfire. So that goes for both sides.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Anything else?

MR. HARR: Your Honor, regarding the stipulation on the picketing, should we submit that at this time, your Honor?

THE COURT: Sure. Okay. I'll read this to the jury when I read the instructions. All right. Thank you, Counsel.

MR. HARR: Your Honor, did you see your list of proposed instructions?

THE COURT: Yeah. You want to give it to me?

MR. HARR: Yes, please.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. HARR: I've got a couple of -

MR. SCHWARZ: Oh, there is one matter that we do have to take up.

MR. HARR: Is it about this?

MR. SCHWARZ: It's a circumstantial, that's correct. There's only one -- from almost all of these, your Honor, we agree. There is only one instruction that we disagree, that we should probably take up at this time before the jury is brought in. It's on circumstantial evidence. Counsel wants to give a jury instruction, either 2.01 or 2.02, your Honor. And in this case the People would submit that all -- the entire case is based on direct evidence. There has been no circumstantial evidence. And so we would ask that the instruction not be given. Our entire case is direct, your Honor, documents, testimony, observations, your Honor.

THE COURT: Counsel?

MR. HARR: Your Honor, I believe that a substantial amount of their case is circumstantial. They're trying to have people infer a -- at least at this point they're trying to have the people infer that -- or circumstantially by the fact that he's standing, Mr. Henson is standing by a bridge that he might lob a bomb. They brought in the Mambo Chicken; what is that for? That's no threat. It's ten-year-old information. The patent, that's got to be there for an inference. What else? The ten-year-old testimony. You know, the bomb exploits out in the desert. These are all circumstantial matters.

THE COURT: Let me just say something about that. I think the jury, we will instruct the jury that they may or may not apply any instruction that they think is appropriate and applicable. They may disregard -

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, however, in this -- from my experience, your Honor, the circumstantial evidence case where there is no circumstantial evidence is highly prejudicial to the People, and the People would -

THE COURT: Why is that, Counsel? Why is it prejudicial to give an instruction concerning circumstantial evidence -

MR. SCHWARZ: Because your Honor -

THE COURT: -- if the Court includes a caveat that the jury may disregard any instruction which it believes is not applicable to the circumstances?

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, this is the reason why. In this Deputy District Attorney's experience, and in the prosecutor's office, your Honor, the reason why is, this particular language, "If circumstantial evidence permits two reasonable interpretations, one which points to the defendant's guilt and the other to the innocence, you must adopt the --"

THE COURT: The Court is familiar with the instruction.

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, absolutely, your Honor. And the Court would agree with the People, I'm sure, that is, that instruction is confused with reasonable doubt. Now, in a case where circumstantial evidence is appropriate, that becomes - and if the Court's not going to allow the People to in fact argue the jury instructions, then this is highly prejudicial, your Honor, and can be confused easily. Since this case Mr. Harr indicates that everything has been circumstantial, inferences are not circumstantial. Inferences from direct evidence is what we have. We have testimony of direct observation and documents.

THE COURT: Counsel, don't argue the case now. I have no intention of not giving that instruction. The jury may in its own reason disregard it if it believes that it is irrelevant. Let's see if the jury is here. When they're here we'll call them in. Do I have a list of those instructions that you just proffered?

MR. HARR: They've been submitted, your Honor.

(The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)

THE COURT: Good morning. I hope you had a good weekend and good Monday. Before we begin let me say something. The Court has heard and I want to bring it to the attention of everybody in the courtroom that there -- you may have heard some discussion in the hall concerning this case. I don't know. But if you heard it, you also have heard the Court's instruction to disregard what you hear and read and see. You'll make up your decision. You'll make your decision from the facts in this courtroom and not from any conversation or statement you may have heard outside. Likewise, I would like to -- I certainly have no reason to not welcome anybody that's in the courtroom. But I would ask you, or I would tell you that it does no good for any of you to do or say anything outside the presence of the Court and in the possible presence of the jury. To do so may in fact hurt your cause as opposed to helping it. That being said, let us commence. You have your next witness, Counsel?

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor, thank you. People would call Bruce Wagoner to the stand.

THE COURT: Good morning, sir.

THE WITNESS: Good morning.

THE COURT: Would you raise your right hand and face the clerk, please.

THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in the case now pending before this Court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?


THE CLERK: Thank you. Please be seated. State and spell your name for the record.

THE WITNESS: My name is Bruce Wagoner. Do you need me to spell -

THE COURT: Last name if you would, please.

THE WITNESS: The last name is spelled W-a-g-o-n-e-r.

THE COURT: I presume you spell Bruce like Bruce?

THE WITNESS: That's correct.

THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead, Counsel.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Good morning, Mr. Wagoner.

A: Good morning.

Q: Have you ever testified before in court?

A: No, I haven't.

Q: Okay. Well, there are a couple of things I might want to mention to you. If I ask you a question, answer the question. But if it calls for a "yes" answer, say "yes" and not "yeah" or -

MR. HARR: Objection, leading the witness.

THE COURT: Well, overruled. But I -

MR. SCHWARZ: If the Court wants to instruct -

THE COURT: That's all right. Sometimes you don't have to. You shouldn't instruct a witness -

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.

Q: Anyway, that's how it works. Anyway, to begin with, let's start with some background information on you. How old are you?

A: I'm 41.

Q: And where do you live?

A: I live in an apartment here in Hemet.

Q: And since when have you lived in Hemet?

A: I came here in 1988, and I've lived here since.

Q: And where do you work?

A: At the Church of Scientology International at the Golden Era Productions facilities. It's just on Highway 79, a little bit outside the city limits in Riverside County.

Q: How long have you worked in Golden Era?

A: I've worked there since 1988.

Q: And what do you do at the church?

A: Well, my duties there include basically making sure that the church is in compliance with the laws of the land in all ways. We have translations we do of our films there, and we have people that come from other countries, make sure they have their immigration in order, proper visas. We have vehicles, I make sure they're registered properly. We have various permits that we have from the County for things we do, I make sure they're renewed and kept updated. I also help our employees if they have personal matters they need help with, like maybe a marriage license or something, or some of the older staff who want a will, or people who want to get a driver's license, I'll assist them with those kinds of things.

Q: And are you a Scientologist?

A: Yes, I am.

Q: Do you know of a person by the name of Keith Henson?

A: I do.

Q: And is he in the courtroom today?

A: Yes, he is.

Q: Could you please point him out and name an article of clothing that he is wearing?

A: Yes. He's sitting at the table right here, and he has a blue jacket and a white flower.

THE COURT: Indicated the defendant for the record.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.

Q: When did you first see him?

A: I first saw him in 1997.

Q: And can you tell us under what circumstance you saw Mr. Henson?

A: Yes, I can. He was on the highway that runs right through our property where the church is, and he was out on the road there with a sign.

Q: And did you speak to him then?

A: I did.

Q: And what happened?

A: Well, I was told there was someone on the road with a sign. And oftentimes when there's somebody out there, be a motorist that may have broken down -

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, nonresponsive. He just asked him what happened.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Well, so just tell us what exactly happened, what did you do?

A: I went and spoke to Mr. Henson just to see if he had a difficulty or needed help with something.

Q: And since 1997 have you received any information about the defendant which gave you cause for concern?

A: Yes, I have.

Q: And what information did you receive?

A: Well, I learned different things about him. I read apart of a book about Mr. Henson that's called The Great Mambo Chicken something or other. And in it, it gives information about him being an explosives expert, somebody who's set off bombs out in the desert and knows how to make bombs, also had guns, even had a cannon. These are things I considered a bit unusual. I've also seen postings that he's made on the internet -

THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, I think the question was what did you learn about Mr. Henson.

THE WITNESS: Okay, sir. I also learned from postings that he made on the internet that he has a hatred for my religion and would like to destroy Scientology and Scientologists utterly, has no regard for us whatsoever. I also learned about him from a posting I saw that he had instructed children in pyrotechnics and how to make pipe bombs, which to me indicated that the man has the capability to do destructive things and is also dangerous.

THE COURT: Excuse me, sir, the question is what did you learn about him?

THE WITNESS: Understood. Well, that is what I learned. I learned that he has the capability of making explosives devices, is considered to be an expert in that, and is dangerous.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. Now, you mentioned The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition; is this the book that you're referring to?

A: Yes, it is.

MR. SCHWARZ: May I approach, your Honor?


Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Now, you haven't been privy to this, but previous testimony talks about the atomic bombs or whatever. But you mentioned something about a cannon. Would you please read to me that portion of the book talking about the cannon that gave you concern?

A: Yes, I will.

Q: Can you please state the page number and the paragraph that you are reading from.

A: Okay. I'm on page 50 of the book, and it's a paragraph at the very bottom of that page. This is what it says. It says, "They and their friends also held," in quotes, "'ring parties,' modeled after J.R.R. Tolkein's Lord of the Rings," and it quotes, "'We re-enacted the scenes that called for lots of fire, smoke and explosives like the storming of Isengard " end quote, "Caroline said. And if all that weren't enough, the Hensons also owned a Civil War replica cannon named Terrace Dolba (phonetic spelling) plus assorted guns, rifles and other hardware. Indeed, Caroline and Keith were every inch one of Tuscon's highest tech, highest fire power married couples."

Q: Now, you've seen that book; is the book fiction or non-fiction?

A: It's non-fiction.

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, calls for a conclusion.

MR. SCHWARZ: Personal knowledge, your Honor.

THE COURT: Do you know, sir?

THE WITNESS: It is non-fiction. I say that because it just gives accounts of things that happened. It's not pretend.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you. Excuse me, your Honor. May I approach, your Honor?

Q: For the benefit of the jury we're not going to go one by one, and for the record I am presenting the witness what's been previously been marked as People's Exhibits 2, 6, 7, 8A, 9A, 10, 13, 14, 15A, 17, 18A, 19A, 20, 22, 23, 24A, and 25A. Again for time, would you please look over those postings and see if you recognize them.

MR. HARR: Your Honor, while he's -- while the witness is doing that could I please ask Counsel to repeat everything after 20? I couldn't write fast enough, I'm sorry.


Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Mr. Wagoner, some of those postings also have been redacted, which means that parts of it have been removed because they are irrelevant and don't comply with the California Evidence Code -

THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. I think that that's somewhat inaccurate. I think portions of them have been removed.

MR. SCHWARZ: Correct.

THE COURT: Whether they are relevant or not is a question that has not been resolved.

MR. SCHWARZ: That's fine, your Honor.

Q: So just to be aware of that.

A: Okay. Okay. I've seen them all now.

Q: Okay. Do you recognize those postings that I gave to you?

A: Yes, I do.

Q: And how do you recognize them?

A: I've read these before.

Q: And when was that?

A: In the summer of last year between a period roughly from June to July.

Q: Okay. And where did you get the postings from?

A: These were given to me by our general manager, Mr. Hoden.

Q: And why did Mr. Hoden give you that information?

A: He gave me these so that I would read them and be briefed and understand who Keith Henson was and what he did so I'd understand when he came in front of our church there he was actually there because he was threatening us and doing something to intimidate us.

Q: After you received this knowledge from Mr. Hoden and witnessed the defendant's behavior, what did you do?

A: Well, for me, personally, I became concerned. I actually became worried for my safety.

THE COURT: Excuse me. The question is, what did you do?

THE WITNESS: Understood, sir. What I did was I helped in part of a response that was developed there at the church to basically protect our staff whenever Mr. Henson would come out on the road. And what I mean by that is, when he would come I would have to leave my duties, whatever they were, and literally just run outside and keep our staff from going near the highway, and also at times keep them from going underneath the tunnel. Because we didn't know if possible he would throw a bomb or explosives device over and injure or kill someone. This went as far as in the heat of the summer, sometimes it's over 110 degrees out there, we'd have to tell our staff not to use the tunnel that's in the center of the place -

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor -

THE WITNESS: -- but go to the other end.

THE COURT: What is your objection, Counsel?

MR. HARR: Hearsay.

THE COURT: What's that?

MR. HARR: Hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Well, just to make it clear, I actually would tell people myself not to go through our central tunnel but to go outside our secondary tunnel, which was probably another, I would say from my own experience, half mile walk. And this was very concerning to me, not only because it was an interruption to my duties, and I couldn't carry out my own religious duties, but at times when I wanted to worship I literally couldn't even go across the street to our chapel because it wasn't safe to go anywhere near the tunnel. I at times saw the defendant hanging over the side of it, possibly making threats. He looked like he was gesticulating towards people there. It caused me concern in other ways, too. There were times where we couldn't even have our staff, our employees couldn't come to dinner because they couldn't get from one side of the place to the other just to go eat, because we didn't know if they were safe or might be injured in some way. I also had to see -

THE COURT: Excuse me. Counsel, ask another question.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Why don't you tell us what things you personally observed regarding Mr. Henson's conduct?

A: Okay.

Q: During the relevant period of time.

A: Well, I observed -- I observed one thing at my apartment. I left to come in one morning to go to the church. I was driving in in a car, and I had some other employees with me. As I left the parking lot, I saw a car coming by very slowly right in front of the place where I live, probably about three miles an hour. And as I looked into it, it was Mr. Henson in the car. He was literally peering out at me, looking at what I was doing, glaring at me through the car windshield. I was concerned about it. I had other people with me, didn't know if he might attack the car -

THE COURT: That was his concern; isn't that right?

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, that is his concern.

THE COURT: Do you have a question for him?


THE COURT: Thank you.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): So now, you said this was outside of your apartment. So where is your -- I don't want the exact location, but is your apartment at the Golden Era Productions?

A: No, it's in town. I don't mind giving where it is. It's on Kirby Street.

Q: Okay. Did you witness anything else that Mr. Henson did that gave you concern?

A: Yes, I did. I believe I mentioned I saw him hanging over the fence at our -- at the church, looking over. And he was saying something I couldn't hear, but yelling at other people that were there. I also saw him on the road, and at times he would run from one gate to another. And this was at a time when our buses were coming in with the staff in them. And he would literally get out in front of them or in their way so he could be near them. And it was, you know, I took it as intimidation of the people by him. And I was concerned about that, too, because I thought maybe he was going to attack the bus.

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, that was speculation.

MR. SCHWARZ: That's his feeling, your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, I think it is speculation.

MR. SCHWARZ: That's fine, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.

Q: Let's talk about the time that he was out in front of your home. Did he have a picket sign then?

A: I saw no sign.

Q: And you mentioned a fence, that he was hanging over a fence; is there a fence around all your property?

A: Yes, there is.

Q: Out of curiosity, why is that?

A: Well, it's like other gated communities you'll find in this area. And the difference with us is we have a lot of equipment there. It's a place where we make instructional films for the church. There is a lot of movie equipment in there that's worth a lot of money. But then inside of there, those buildings don't even have locks on the doors. The whole place is wide open. So that fence serves to protect the place and the people there. And also at night when all the staff go home there's hardly anybody there, it's just a handful of people left. So it's a way to keep the facility safe.

Q: Okay. Now, when you read those postings, and I take it just not just now, but back when you originally read them, how did that make you feel?

A: I became -- I became frightened. I actually was scared for my own well-being and for my fellows', because I felt that there was a real threat here of somebody who would like to destroy and do harm to us.

Q: Was your name mentioned in any of those postings?

A: No.

Q: Were you -- and you were nevertheless afraid?

A: Yes, I was.

Q: Why?

A: Well, these -- there are threats in here against my religion as a Scientologist. But it's not just that it's a piece of paper. I mean, there is literally a man in front of my office walking up and down the street, and he is the one that made these threats. And they're against me, because I am a Scientologist, too. But it isn't just that. It's like, I know that this man can make explosives. I know he has said he would like to destroy the church and Scientologists utterly. And it's not even at work. I go home, and I come out in the morning, and there he is in front of my house. This is - this is not normal. This causes me great concern, personally and for my friends as well.

MR. SCHWARZ: I appreciate that. Thank you. No further questions.

THE COURT: Counsel?

MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Good morning, Mr. Wagoner.

A: Good morning.

Q: So I believe you said you met Mr. Henson in 1997?

A: Yes.

Q: And you were actually face-to-face with Mr. Henson?

A: Yes, I was.

Q: And did he try to punch you or anything during that encounter?

A: He didn't try to do anything physically.

Q: I believe you indicated that the postings led you to believe -- actually, reports that led you to believe that Mr. Henson didn't like individual Scientologists; is that correct?

A: He says there that he would like -

Q: Is that correct?

A: -- that he would like to see all -

THE COURT: Excuse me, sir.

THE WITNESS: -- all Scientologists destroyed -

THE COURT: Excuse me, sir.

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

THE COURT: If you'll wait first. The question - what was the question?

MR. HARR: I could either -

THE COURT: Would you read it back, please.

(Record read.)

THE COURT: Is that correct?


THE COURT: All right.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): Okay. Of the postings that Mr. Schwarz handed you, which I believe you still have, could you please tell me which, if any, of those reports indicated to you that Mr. Henson doesn't like a specific Scientologist?

A: Well, here's the first one. This is what it says.

Q: Could you please hold that up so I can see which document you're referring to?

A: Yeah. The number's 23. And it says, "The only way I can get clear of this Scientology mess is to destroy them utterly."

Q: So you believe that that refers to a specific Scientologist?

A: It refers to anyone who is a Scientologist.

Q: Okay.

A: Every individual.

Q: So that's your testimony. So you believe that somebody is referred to individually even though they're not named?

A: I as an individual feel I'm referred to by that.

Q: Okay. But your name's not in there; is that correct?

A: No, it's not. But I am a Scientologist, and it does refer to me as such.

Q: So even though your name's not on it, you're convinced that that refers specifically to you?

A: I am.

Q: Thank you. I don't recall that you actually said what your title was at Golden Era; can you please tell us what your title is at Golden Era?

A: My title is called legal officer.

Q: And is Mr. Hoden in effect your boss?

A: Yes.

Q: And isn't it true that you wouldn't have seen any of these reports that Mr. Henson wrote had Mr. Hoden not given them to you; is that correct?

A: I might not have.

Q: Do you have a computer?

A: I have access to them. And I do have one.

Q: Do you normally -- you saw the heading on those reports that you just looked at; are you a frequent observer of the site that's referred to at the top of those reports?

A: No. I am not frequent. My association with them has been those postings.

Q: Do you do it at all?

A: No.

Q: Where did -- never mind. I won't ask that. How long has Mr. Hoden been your boss?

A: Since about 1995.

Q: And did Mr. Hoden tell you that he got these postings from Los Angeles somewhere?

A: He didn't say.

Q: So you don't know where he got them exactly?

A: No.

Q: I believe you indicated that you were involved in a response when Mr. Henson comes out there; does that response involve all the people at the Golden Era facility?

A: Yes, it does.

Q: So if Mr. Henson goes to the facility, someone initiates the response, and then all 700 or so people do something?

A: I'm going to clarify.

Q: Okay. Well, let me -- that was -- you've answered the question. Thank you. I take it you've seen the fence out at Golden Era?

A: Yes.

Q: And I take it that your testimony was that Mr. Henson hangs over the fence?

A: I did see him do that.

Q: Okay. What's at the top of the fence post out there?

A: Nothing.

Q: There isn't a design at the top of the fence post?

A: It's just a black fence.

Q: There isn't a little design at the top of the fence that's kind of pointed?

A: They're still straight posts that go up.

Q: So there's no design at the top of them as far as you know?

A: I don't think so.

Q: Was there a tarp on one of the -- over one of the tunnels that you've referred to in your testimony?

A: I don't remember -

Q: Excuse me, that's incorrect -

A: I don't remember a tarp.

Q: Okay. When you were reading The Mambo Chicken Book, that's not the exact title, but you know, that one, were you aware that the information -- that that book was written in - on or about 1990?

THE COURT: I think that calls for a "yes" or "no" answer, sir.

THE WITNESS: The answer to that is yes.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): If you know, are there more than 50 Scientology sites in California?

MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, relevance.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. HARR: Your Honor, may I approach on that? Or -


MR. HARR: Okay. Yes, your Honor.

Q: Were you aware that various Scientologists have been picketing at Mr. Henson's home during what's been referred to as the relevant period?

A: No.

Q: Were you aware that certain Scientologists were picketing Mr. Henson's wife's place of employment during the relevant period?

A: No.

MR. HARR: No further questions.

THE COURT: Anything?

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor.



Q: Are you on the ground crew?

A: I'm not sure I understand what ground crew is.

Q: Is your job entailed then in maintenance of the grounds? Is that your job?

A: It's not my personal job, no.

Q: Okay. So you wouldn't take notice of particularly whether there was a tarp or not?

A: No, I wouldn't.

Q: Okay. Or how the fence is necessarily constructed?

A: No.

MR. SCHWARZ: No further questions. Thank you.

MR. HARR: No further questions, your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Wagoner. Thank you for your testimony. You are excused, and I guess subject to recall. You may leave.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Next witness, please.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor. The People would call Ms. Hillary Dezotell.

THE COURT: Good morning, ma'am. Would you please stand and face the clerk.

THE CLERK: Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in the case now pending before this Court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?


THE CLERK: Thank you. Please be seated and state and spell your name for the record.

THE WITNESS: State my name?


THE WITNESS: My name is Hillary Dezotell.

THE COURT: Could you spell your last name?

THE WITNESS: Certainly. It's D-e-z-o-t-e-l-l.

THE COURT: All right, Counsel.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Ms. Dezotell, let's start with a little background information about you.

A: Okay.

Q: If it's okay. You don't have to answer. How old are you?

A: I'm 49.

Q: You're 49. And where do you live?

A: I live in Hemet.

Q: Okay. And how long have you lived in Hemet?

A: Thirteen years.

Q: And where do you work?

A: I work at the Church of Scientology, the Golden Era Productions facility on Gilman Hot Springs, Gilman -- Highway 79.

Q: Okay. And just so for the record, is that in Riverside County?

A: Yes, it is.

Q: Are you a Scientologist?

A: Yes, I am.

Q: And how long have you worked at Golden Era Productions?

A: For 15 years.

Q: And what is your position at Golden Era Productions?

A: I'm a host, and I look after the recording artists, the celebrities, and V.I.P.'s who come to film on our educational films that we do and to record music, with some musicians and so forth. And that's what I do.

Q: And can you describe what other sorts of activities that comprise your job?

A: Yeah. We have a lot of functions there that are fund raisers, charity events, and so forth. We -- I host visitors that come, say, from the Emblem Club, the Elks Club, the Chamber of Commerce have fund raisers there. And we have weddings, marriages, and so forth with, you know -- ministers come sometimes, too, for that.

Q: Do you know who Keith Henson is?

A: Yes, I do.

Q: And how do you know him?

A: I know him from photographs, and from seeing him personally, and from reading information about him.

Q: And do you see him in the courtroom today?

A: Yes, I do.

Q: Could you please point to him and name an article of clothing that he or she is wearing?

THE COURT: Excuse me, ma'am.


THE COURT: Would you identify him, where he's seated?

THE WITNESS: I will, yes, sir.


THE WITNESS: He's right there.

THE COURT: Okay. For the record the defendant.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.

Q: Now, you indicated that you received some information from him; when did that occur?

A: Last year, summer.

Q: And what was that information?

A: The information was -- it was a book that I read, a Chicken Mambo book or something, and some other information on internet postings and so forth.

Q: Okay. And under what circumstances did you receive this information?

A: Well, because of the nature of my job -

THE COURT: Excuse me, what was the question?

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

MR. SCHWARZ: Under what circumstances did she receive this information?

THE COURT: Under what circumstances?

THE WITNESS: I received them because I understood that Keith Henson was antagonistic to the church, and because of the people that I work with it was important that I know this.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. And how many postings would you say you were shown?

A: Possibly, I don't know, 30 or 40, something like that.

Q: What I want you to do at this time is I -- I don't know. May I approach, your Honor?


MR. SCHWARZ: I think the previous witness left what's been previously been marked as Exhibits 2, 6, 7, 8A, 9A, 10, 13, 14, 15A, 17, 18A, 19A, 20A, 22, 23, 24A, and 25A. And that's all for the record. Those have been left up on your witness stand. Would you mind doing me a favor and taking a look at those postings, read them, see if you recognize them? And all at once. We aren't going to go through them one by one, to save some time for the jury. So if you can do that, and when you're done looking at them, look up and let me know that you are done.

THE WITNESS: Yes, I will.

MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. Thank you.

Q: Are you done?

A: Yeah, I'm done.

Q: Okay. Do you recognize any of those postings?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: All of them?

A: I think there was one or two there that I didn't - I don't remember seeing before.

Q: Okay. Would you mind pulling those -- I hope you made a separate pile.

A: I didn't, but it's pretty easy.

Q: I see. I should have probably told you to put it in a -- okay. And which ones do you have that you don't particularly know?

A: I have -

THE COURT: You have not seen that one before? Give it to the district attorney.


Q: So you haven't seen 13 or 20A?

A: I don't particularly remember seeing those, no.

Q: Okay. Now, with respect to the ones that you have read before, again, when did you see those postings?

A: Last year sometime.

Q: Okay. And who gave you those postings?

A: Ken Hoden gave them to me.

Q: And did you read them yourself?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: How did they make you feel?

A: They made me feel really nervous. I was like really' -- what with the Chicken Mambo thing that I'd read and the whole thing about explosives, I felt really threatened. I felt really scared.

Q: And if you need to take a moment -

A: Sorry.

Q: Do we have tissue?

THE COURT: We have some kleenex -- let me have it, Counsel.

THE WITNESS: Sorry. Thank you.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): I know this might be hard. Can you tell me why you were scared?

A: Because he blows things up and has done it, you know, and brags about how great it is to see hundred-foot-high flames. And people blow things up, and it's happened before. And I'm vulnerable for myself as well as the people that I work with. I couldn't even bring people up sometimes to come and visit. I told them not to come because I was -- I felt really interfered with, you know, like, intimidated and scared, is how I felt.

Q: Okay. Let's not talk about that now.

A: Sorry. Sorry.

Q: That's okay, that's no problem. Did you ever observe personally some behavior by Mr. Henson that gave you concern?

A: Yes.

Q: Can you describe it, if it's okay?

A: Yeah. So I was in my office, and my office is very close to the highway. And he was peering over the fence right in the window.

Q: Can you, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind standing for the jurors and on that board can you please show the jurors which is your building, where is your office located, ma'am?

A: Okay. So it is right here. The highway is about 15 feet to my window. It's the very closest one right here.

Q: Okay.

MR. HARR: Your Honor, I don't mean to hold things up, but I didn't see what she pointed to -

THE COURT: Could you point to it again for us?

THE WITNESS: Oh, sorry. This one.

MR. HARR: This blue thing right here?

THE WITNESS: Right in the corner.

MR. HARR: Okay.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Okay. And again, where was Mr. Henson?

A: He was right across -- he was on the highway on the verge, and right on the other side of our fence. And I was just, you know, opening the Venetian blinds, and he was peering in. He had this sign and his hat and what have you, his backpack and stuff.

Q: Okay. Now, were you afraid of Mr. Henson, or were you afraid of the sign?

A: I was afraid of Henson. I didn't care about the sign.

Q: I want to -- please be as specific as you can. How did Mr. Henson's activities and your knowledge about what he's done, how did that interfere with your religious -- well, your duties at Golden Era?

A: Okay. How did it interfere with -- well. Well, sometime -- my job takes me physically in different places, because we have a studio where we film, and we have a recording studio on the other side of the property. So I have to go all over with the people that I work with, with the, you know, the actors and singers and, you know, some important people in my estimate. And I couldn't -- I was restricted. I wasn't going to go under the tunnel where he's hanging over the tunnel. You know, it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. It interfered with me. Sometimes I couldn't go to the chapel for myself. But I also couldn't -- I couldn't have -- I couldn't do my job in a normal fashion. And I mean, I'm there seven days a week, it's what I do. I've dedicated my life to do it. So I kind of feel strongly about it, to help people improve their lives. So -- I don't know.

Q: Absolutely.

A: It's the opposite, you know?

Q: Did you alert anyone else about the defendant's activities?

A: I'm sorry, I didn't get -

Q: I'm sorry. Did you alert anybody else about the defendant's activities?

A: I told two actors -

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, hearsay.


THE COURT: That calls for a "yes" or "no" answer.


Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): You did? Thank you, your Honor. Who did you alert?

A: There were two actors who were supposed to arrive on a particular day for shooting, and I told them not to come.

Q: Okay. Has the defendant ever appeared outside your residence -- oh, before that, let me ask you, you said you lived here in Hemet; do you live -- do you live at Golden Era Productions?

A: No. I live at Kirby Garden Apartments.

Q: Okay. Have you ever seen Mr. Henson outside of your residence, ma'am?

A: Well, he was outside, because there's one day that I couldn't leave -

THE COURT: Excuse me, did you ever see him outside?

THE WITNESS: Oh, no. Sorry.

MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. I think I have no further questions for this witness. Thank you.

THE COURT: Counsel?

MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Good morning, ma'am.

A: Good morning.

Q: How long has Mr. Hoden been your boss?

A: He's not my boss.

Q: Who is?

A: Muriel is my boss.

Q: And are you referring to Muriel DuFresne?

A: DuFrane, yeah. Yeah.

Q: Is Mr. Hoden the -- as far as you know the manager -

A: General manager, yeah.

Q: General manager?

A: Yeah.

Q: From whom did you receive the reports that you just received except for the two that you didn't recognize? From whom did you receive those reports?

A: From him.

Q: "Him" being Mr. Hoden?

A: Yeah, Mr. Hoden.

Q: And how long have you been at Golden Era in your current capacity?

A: What I do now, six years. I've been at Golden Era 13 years, but I've done what I do now for six years.

Q: Do you recall seeing Mr. Henson picketing at Golden Era in 1995?

A: No.

Q: Are you familiar with the design of the fence at Golden Era in the sense that -- have you seen a lot of the fence posts out there that Mr. Henson was supposedly hanging onto?

A: I don't know about hanging onto fence posts.

Q: Okay. So he was on the street side of the fence, he never was on Golden Era, I take it. Isn't there a pointed little deal at the top of all the little posts out there on the fence that surrounds Golden Era Productions?

A: Yeah. I'm not sure. Probably, yeah. There's that place, you know, where the tunnel -- where the main tunnel is where we walk. That's where I saw him hanging over.

Q: Okay. Isn't there a little pointy deal on each one of the little posts out there?

A: I actually don't know, so.

Q: So you're not interested in what Mr. Henson's sign says?

A: No.

Q: So you think based on what you've heard in certain reports that what he actually does when he gets out there really isn't that important?

A: Not to me.

Q: Okay. I believe it's accurate to state that none of the reports that you just read specifically mentions your name; does it?

A: They don't have to. It talks about where I work every day.

THE COURT: Excuse me, ma'am.

THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.

THE COURT: The question was, do any of the reports that you read mention your name?


THE COURT: Thank you.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): Did any of the reports that you read mention I.C.B.M.'s?

A: Yeah.

Q: Did you think Mr. Henson was going to launch an I.C.B.M. at -

A: I thought he was going to blow something up. I don't know about I.C.B.M., you know, I don't know.

Q: When you read the Mambo Chicken book, I believe - had you read it before June of 2000?

A: Yeah.

Q: When did you first read it?

A: I think it was about a year before that I looked at some of the passages in there, yeah.

Q: And did you just pick it up in a book store?

A: No. It was actually Ken Hoden had it in his office and it was -- yeah, it looked kind of weird, so I picked it up myself.

Q: So Ken Hoden had this book at least a year before June of 2000?

A: Something like that, yeah. I can't remember exactly, but.

Q: Did Mr. Hoden show you a patent that Mr. Henson -

A: A what?

Q: A patent, copy of a patent?

A: No.

Q: Isn't it true that you wouldn't have seen any of these postings or reports that you've just referred to unless Mr. Hoden had given them to you?

A: Well, the chicken book I picked up myself.

Q: I'm talking about -- I don't mean to interrupt, but the reports?

A: Oh, yeah, no. I wouldn't have.

MR. HARR: No further questions. Thank you.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

THE COURT: Counsel?



Q: Ms. Dezotell, now, you received this, these postings, the book, whatnot, the information about Mr. Henson; did you form your own opinion, or did you take on Mr. Hoden's opinion about whether you should fear Mr. Henson or not?

A: I absolutely formed my own opinion.

MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. No further questions. Thank you.

THE COURT: Anything?

MR. HARR: No, your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am.

THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.

THE COURT: Thank you for your testimony. You are excused subject to recall.


THE COURT: Any further witnesses?

MR. SCHWARZ: Yes, your Honor. The People have one more witness. However, the People are unsure exactly where that person is. He is? Oh, good. Well, then, the People would call Deputy Rowe. Thank you.

THE COURT: Are you recalling Deputy Rowe?

MR. SCHWARZ: First time, your Honor. Detective Greer is the one who testified before.

THE COURT: Oh, okay. Good morning, Deputy. Would you raise your right hand and be sworn.

THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give in the case now pending before this Court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?


THE CLERK: Please be seated, state and spell your name for the record.

THE WITNESS: Deputy M-i-c-h-a-e-l, Michael, Rowe, R-o-w-e.

THE COURT: Go ahead, Counsel.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Deputy Rowe, how are you employed, sir?

A: I'm a Deputy Sheriff for the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

Q: And how long have you been a sworn peace officer in the state of California?

A: Been a sworn peace officer for about three years, just over three years.

Q: What training did you receive in order to hold your position?

A: I went through a 24-week basic academy, at which time I graduated and was placed in the jail, went through a two-month training program and went to patrol and received a four-month training program there.

Q: Okay. And were you taught how to interview and conduct investigations and write reports?

A: Yes.

Q: When -- do you know a person by the name of Keith Henson?

A: Yes.

Q: And do you see that person in court today?

A: Yes.

Q: Can you point to him, please?

A: Right there.

Q: Can the record reflect -

THE COURT: For the record the defendant.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you, your Honor.

Q: When did you first meet the defendant?

A: Last year, I believe the date was July 19th.

Q: Okay. And under what circumstances did you meet Mr. Henson?

A: I was called by Golden Era, by the general -- I believe the general manager, Ken Hoden, reference some internet postings that they had been made aware of, and they called us out there to conduct an investigation.

Q: When you -- so you -- was there anybody else besides you who responded to Golden Era?

A: Nope. I believe it was -- at that point I believe it was just me.

Q: Well, what did you do when you went to Golden Era when you responded to the call?

A: I spoke to the general manager and a few other people that -- that Golden Era had for me. I received a whole bunch of internet documents. They kind of went over them and told me that they felt threatened, that they were afraid of Mr. Henson. And so I went out front where Mr. Henson was picketing and spoke to him.

Q: Okay. And then what happened?

A: Based on the information in the documents that they had given me I arrested Mr. Henson and took him to the station so that I could further interview him.

Q: Okay. And did you read him his Miranda rights?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And did he still agree ultimately to speak with you?

A: Yes.

Q: Did the defendant reveal a purpose behind his internet postings to you?

A: Yeah. He told me he likes to make the Scientologists paranoid.

Q: Did you ask the defendant whether he was intending to make the victims afraid?

A: Yes.

Q: What did he say?

A: He clarified and said "paranoid."

Q: Okay. And did you ask the defendant about his background and extensive history of making bombs?

A: Yes.

Q: And what did he say about that?

A: He told me that he used to teach pyrotechnic safety and that he was -- he clarified me and said it wasn't bombs, it was pyrotechnics and explosives. And he used to teach it in -- or he was qualified to teach it.

Q: Did you discuss with him the fact that his extensive explosives background made the Scientologists afraid?

A: Yes.

Q: And what did he say about that?

A: Oh, boy. I believe he said, "That's --" "That's on them," or, "That's their problem," if I recall.

Q: Did you ask the defendant whether he thought the church took his threats seriously?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And what did he say about that?

A: I believe he said they're hyper-paranoid, and they shouldn't be taking them seriously, and if they did that - and I believe again it was something somewhere to, "That's their problem."

Q: Did he show any remorse for the victims' fear?

A: No.

Q: Now, you mentioned before about 7th and 8th graders, about teaching them something; did the defendant talk about pipe bombs?

A: Yes.

Q: And what did he say about that?

A: He said -- he said he used to teach it, and that he knew how to make them. He said he hasn't made any pipe bombs in a very long time, but he said -- he was certainly familiar with how to make them.

Q: Okay. Did any -- did he indicate anything about the capability or the degree of damage these bombs would have?

A: Yeah. Okay. He said when he set them off when he was a kid -

MR. HARR: Objection, your Honor, there is no indication that anyone -

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. SCHWARZ: Please continue.

THE WITNESS: He said he used to set them off when he was a kid. And I don't recall his exact statement, but he explained to me that the radius and the damage they could do, and he quoted a certain distance.

Q. (By Mr. Schwarz): Do you recall what that distance is?

A: I don't recall the exact distance, but it was rather large. But he knew it.

Q: It was a quarter mile?

A: Could have been.

Q: Okay. Did he -- did the defendant say anything about taking the church down?

A: Yes.

Q: What did he say?

A: He said he wanted to take them down by psychological means, and he said another way, too. But -- he didn't say a physical means. As a matter of fact, he clarified that. Not by physical means, but by psychological means.

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you very much. No further questions for this witness.

THE COURT: Counsel?

MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.



Q: Good morning, Deputy Rowe.

A: Good morning.

Q: You have a heck of a memory for remembering exactly when you met Mr. Henson; how do you happen to remember exactly the date when you met him?

A: I'm sorry?

Q: How do you happen to remember the exact date that you met Mr. Henson?

A: I reviewed my report.

Q: So you thoroughly reviewed your report this morning before testifying?

A: No, actually, I did not get an opportunity to review it this morning before I testified. I was a little late this morning. But I reviewed it last week when I was here.

Q: And do you have an independent recollection of events as opposed to just reading your report and stating what's in your report?

A: Yeah. Actually, it was actually the transcript where I remember most of the details. My report didn't actually have it. It was the interview.

Q: So you actually went over your transcript as well?

A: Yes.

Q: So you think you're familiar with that transcript?

A: I'm vaguely familiar with it. I wouldn't be able to,, quote you very many specifics. Let me see if you remember this part, Deputy Rowe. "Deputy Rowe: Okay. Are you trying -- you're trying to disband them, trying to shut them down, is that what you're doing --"

MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, foundation, your Honor.

MR. HARR: I'm reading from the transcript that Deputy Rowe just mentioned. If he has a copy of the transcript with him, I'd ask that he could follow along with me.

THE COURT: Do you have a copy, Deputy?

THE WITNESS: I do. It's over there.


THE WITNESS: By the seats over there.

THE COURT: Why don't you let the deputy get it.

MR. HARR: Please.

Q: Okay. Deputy Rowe, have you had a chance to get that transcript?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: Okay. Thank you. Now, I don't know if I've got the same transcript you do, but the transcript I have I am referring to as page 21. And I think the last time we discussed this there might have been a slight discrepancy in the two documents as far as page number goes. But if you'd please refer to page 21. 'Cause does the top of your page 21 start with the word "Henson" and then some testimony that starts -- or not testimony, but starts, "There is no," or - is that on your page 21?

A: "No virtue"?

Q: Yes, that one.

A: Okay.

Q: Okay. If you could go down past your name and then Mr. Henson's to where it says your name again, where it says "Rowe."

A: Okay.

Q: And it's -- it says, "Okay. Are you trying, you're trying to disband them, trying to shut them down, is that what you're doing?" And Mr. Henson apparently answered, "Either get --"

MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor.

MR. HARR: I'm reading from the transcript -

MR. SCHWARZ: Your Honor, this is hearsay as to Mr. -

THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel. I think it was an admission, and that was the reason the Court allowed it in. Overruled.

MR. HARR: Thank you, your Honor.

Q: And Mr. Henson says, "Either get them to massively reform or put them completely out of business." Your question, "How are you -- how are you -- how are you trying to do that? "Answer: Picketing. Picketing them. "Rowe: By picketing them, not by means of threat or when you're - "Henson: You mean like physical attacks on them? "Rowe: No. Just threats, maybe with the news group maybe --" And then he goes on. Isn't it true he was trying to bring these people down, if at all, by picketing? Wasn't that his testimony during the interview?

THE COURT: Excuse me, Counsel -

THE WITNESS: Yes, right there it was.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): And isn't it true that the only person that he intended to make paranoid, if anybody, was Mr. Miscavige?

A: Yes, I remember him mentioning -- I couldn't say that would be the only person, because he mentioned Scientology as well. But he did mention some contempt for Mr. Miscavige as well.

Q: And you mentioned earlier, I believe, that you wrote a police report about this interview?

A: Correct.

Q: And isn't it true that that report only says that he was trying to make Mr. Miscavige paranoid?

A: Possibly.

Q: Do you have your report with you?

A: Yes.

Q: Could you please refer to page -- continuation page 3 of your report?

A: I brought it with me, but I don't have it up here.

Q: Oh, I'm sorry. Your Honor, may he please get his police report, copy of it?

THE COURT: Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take our recess as soon as Detective Rowe is concluded or at 10:30, whichever is first.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): Okay. Deputy Rowe, have you had a chance to flip to continuation page 3 of your report?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Do you see the paragraph, it's the third full paragraph that starts, "I conducted a tape-recorded interview"?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Okay. And about the next two -- the second sentence after that it says, I believe, "He stated that he sometimes says things on the site to make Miscavige paranoid." You didn't -- isn't that what your report says?

A: Yes.

Q: And it doesn't mention him trying to make anybody else paranoid; does it?

A: Not here, no.

Q: Okay. Anything else in your report that says that he was trying to make somebody paranoid?

A: I don't think there's anything else in the report, in the written report.

Q: Now, I believe your report, I'm now looking at one, two, three, four, the fourth full paragraph which says "Under Penal Code," blah, blah, blah. There, okay, last sentence. It says, "Ken refused to sign a citizen's arrest for him to have Keith arrested." Who is Ken?

A: That would be Ken Hoden.

Q: And who is Keith?

A: Keith Henson.

Q: So is it correct to say that Mr. Hoden refused to sign a citizen's arrest for Mr. Henson?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you ask Mr. Henson if he had any idea where Mr. Miscavige was?

A: I may have. I don't recall. I may have.

Q: And you did in fact make a tape of your interview, is that correct, with Mr. Henson?

A: Yes. Yes.

Q: And isn't it true that Mr. Henson indicated that to the extent that he may have mentioned I.C.B.M.'s in certain reports that he was only joking?

A: Uh-huh, true.

Q: And isn't it true that Mr. Henson was picketing when you arrived at Golden Era that day and you first met him?

A: Yes, he was.

Q: And was -- to your knowledge was he doing anything illegal while he was picketing?

MR. SCHWARZ: Objection, your Honor, calls for speculation.

THE COURT: While he was picketing? I'll allow that. Overruled.

THE WITNESS: At the point I saw him picketing I didn't see him doing anything illegal.

Q. (By Mr. Harr): Did he have a sign with him?

A: Yeah.

MR. HARR: No further questions.

THE COURT: Counsel?

MR. SCHWARZ: Thank you.



Q: Deputy Rowe, now, you write a report after you do an interview; is that right?

A: Correct.

Q: Do you include every fact in your report?

A: Absolutely not.

Q: Okay. And you testified before that you had arrested Mr. Henson on the road; is that correct? A'. Yes.

MR. SCHWARZ: Okay. No further questions.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Officer. Or Detective. You're excused. You may leave. This is a good time for us to take our morning recess. Please don't discuss the case. Let's get back here at 20 minutes to 11:00. Court's in recess.

Go to next part of transcript
Go to previous part of transcript
Back to index